Pocket sevens, early in The Rumble in the Rockies (1 Viewer)

[DrStrange]

We are playing the main event at the Rumble in the Rockies. The blinds are 200/400 making us something like a quarter or a third of the way done. I think there are sixteen players left in the event.

Hero has a 25,000 chip stack, a little better than average but nothing like the chip leaders on the other table. Hero's stack is close to best at his table. Hero's table is split between tight passives on Hero's right and a mish mash of looser and/or more aggressive players to Hero's left. Hero has cultivated a tight, passive table image. I will offer a more detailed villain description once we figure who will become part of the hand.

The hand:

Hero is second to act. UTG has folded. Hero holds , should Hero fold, limp or raise? If raising, how much?

DrStrange

 

[slisk250]

Raise 1200

 

[detroitdad]

1200-1500

 

[ushallnotraise]

Raise 950. Standard raises nowadays are 2-2.25x, slightly larger if utg or utg+1

 

[Psypher1000]

I don't see 7's as being raise-worthy pre-flop in this scenario. Sure, it's a pair, but it's bottom-half pair in less-than-favorable position, and if people do indeed see you as tight-passive then a raise should signal to the table for everyone else to fold unless they have a premium hand (which is likely to end poorly for you) and all you've won is a set of blinds. Limping seems prudent to me here.

 

[David O]

I would limp to see a flop. Hope to catch a 7 and be prepared to fold if I did not catch a 7.

 

[Kyle]

Never limp. Attack. Kill or be killed. No fear.

 

[ushallnotraise]

Limping invites too many other hands to limp. Small suited aces, suited connectors, smaller pairs, etc.

If we have a tight table image and raise, we will get a lot of credit. If we get HU on the flop then we can still lead out on many boards.

Raising >>>>>>>> limping.

 

[David O]

Limping invites too many other hands to limp. Small suited aces, suited connectors, smaller pairs, etc.

If we have a tight table image and raise, we will get a lot of credit. If we get HU on the flop then we can still lead out on many boards.

Raising >>>>>>>> limping.

You may need to follow your username on this one. [emoji3]

 

[ushallnotraise]

You may need to follow your username on this one. [emoji3]

If I want to have leaks in my MTT game, sure.

 

[David O]

If I want to have leaks in my MTT game, sure.

Joke!! Lighten up

 

[ushallnotraise]

Joke!! Lighten up

I wasn't all that serious, inflection comes across so poorly in text.

The only time limping is +ev is if we are also occasionally limping with hands like AA/KK/QQ/AK and 3betting once it's raised to us. Otherwise our range is so polarized when we limp pre.

 

[DrStrange]

Interesting how many advocates there are for trying to take down the blinds with a raise. Hero likely isn't going to like his situation post flop if someone calls the raise in position. If Hero is raising preflop, is he c-betting ~80+% of the time?

For what it is worth, the table did see Hero limp aces preflop back when the blinds were tiny, say 75/150.

 

[David O]

Anyway the reason I say flat is from his OP he states there are LAGs to his left. Still early in the session and why go to battle this early with a lower mid pair. With a full table he has at least 4 Passive players which means the other 4 are LAG's. With more than 3/4's of the tourney left there will be other hands to raise and do some stack battles with. At this point of the tourney it is minimize any losses and maximize all of your opportunities.

 

[Psypher1000]

Anyway the reason I say flat is from his OP he states there are LAGs to his left. Still early in the session and why go to battle this early with a lower mid pair. With a full table he has at least 4 Passive players which means the other 4 are LAG's. With more than 3/4's of the tourney left there will be other hands to raise and do some stack battles with. At this point of the tourney it is minimize any losses and maximize all of your opportunities.

This is my exact line of thinking in the scenario presented, and I just don't see 7's as a worthy of much risk at the moment.

 

[Ghoti]

Raise to 900-1k.

 

[Kyle]

Everybody has a different style. No right way to play any hand. But I find it frustrating if everybody folds to blinds anyway and the sb and bb see a flop for free with a 823 board then they bet into you. Now your giving them free chips.

Blinds are high enough to take at that point in my opinion.

 

[ushallnotraise]

Interesting how many advocates there are for trying to take down the blinds with a raise.

The point of the raise isn't necessarily to just take down the blinds, it's to narrow the field from drawing hands, weak aces, etc. Just because you have a med pocket pair doesn't mean it's flop a set or fold. There are lots of board textures that are good to cbet at. Remember, since you raised in EP and have a tight table image you are repping a premium hand. So if you get heads up, and the board comes something like T62 it's an easy cbet, if the board comes A92 it's a good board to bet at as well because you can very easily rep the A.

 

[atomiktoaster]

How often does a table limp around at a meet up? Let the LAGs do their thing here.

 

[DrStrange]

*** next? ***

Hero limps for 400. We have a couple of folds, then a raise to 1,700 by a late position LAG with 17,000 chips. Everyone folds to Hero. 2,700 in the pot, Hero owes 1,300 to call. Action is on Hero. Should he fold, call or raise? Any plans for the hand after reading the rest of this post?

If Hero calls, it will be heads up, 4,000 in the pot with 15,300 effective stacks.

Hero's Villain read. This is a local player, loose, aggressive and loud. No read on stickiness. (I have a much more detailed read for some future hands, but I will try to limit this description to what Hero knows at the moment.) I do not know how skilled this guy is, though I lean towards exploitable. One notable early hand - villain makes a late position preflop raise with . He gets 3-bet preflop from the blinds, which he calls and ends up all in post flop vs pocket kinds on a flush draw which comes in.

Villain does think a little deeper than many other players. He knows about table image and makes attempts to take advantage of it. At least so he tells us. Villain has a lot of stories that might be accurate or exaggerations. Villain has had some dealing experience.

Hero's image - Hero has been cultivating an "Old Man, Coffee" image which appears to be solidly sold to villain. He has already made a couple of snarky comments about how tight/passive Hero is.

So, what advice will you offer Hero?

 

[Psypher1000]

Ohhh...THAT guy. Against that guy, I'm gonna call and see the flop at just about any price. I would probably be prepared to offer a c-bet of about 3k, nearly regardless of the board texture and hope he doesn't call; if he folds, great...if he re-raises, he likely has air. If he calls...well, that's cause for concern from him.

 

[Adam Crowley]

I'll start at the start of the hand.

Preflop. Open raise 100%. Sizing depends on how often you expect to get 3b light by the lag tard players and there effective stack sizes.

Evaluating your options. You have 60bb stack so some room to play post flop poker.

Limping: You are here to set mine only, regardless of what your perceived range is here your post flop play is face up. The mere fact of limping is stating that you have a hand you want to see a flop with and sometimes a hand you trapping with looking to 3b a preflop raiser. You have no control over the hand. The blinds also get an option to flat with J2 and realise equity that should be taken away from them.

Folding: 77 is a great hand, with 60bb not an option.

Raising: 77 is a strong hand, raising lets you set the tone for the pot. It also gives you control of the hand. At UTG +1 and your table image makes your perceived range quite strong. This leaves us with quite a lot of options for flop play and gives as a few more ways to win the hand.

You should have no open limping range in EP, hands like 55 just play so terrible and your opening up yourself to get heavily exploited. There is nothing wrong with folding small pocket pairs and suited connectors in early position.

If the effective stacks are 45bb+ I would make this $1000 - $1200. If I expect to get 3b light I would head for around $900 so I don't waste as much money when folding.

As played you cant really call now. You generally need around 15x effective stacks behind to call, although the general consensus now is to aim towards 20x as players have gotten better and it's harder to get value.

Given that villain has a wide range and his perception of your tight passive nature I would shove. 30bb shove is a little large but you probably have his range crushed. 3b puts the SPR pretty low and it would appear that Villain will not require much connection to the board to stack off post flop.

 

[12thMan]

I would have thrown 1k out before the flop, but assuming I limped I hate having to call for 2:1 to set mine. I would rather fold to a 3bet that doesn't offer good enough pot odds to set mine than limp out of position and have the choice of folding or calling 2:1. I don't want to flat the 3 bet, miss my set on a board that is probably going to have one, maybe two over cards and have to figure out what to do, also hate folding after limping out of position.

 

[atomiktoaster]

Damn, out of position with short effective stacks looks like a fold to me. At least you saved the cost of the raise...

 

[tripleflatbarrel]

First decision: Raise>fold>limp

Second decision: Call>fold>raise

 

[thorwilliam]

First decision: Raise>fold>limp

Second decision: Call>fold>raise

Agreed, cannot see any positive implications by limping this hand pre.

 

[Trihonda]

Agreed, cannot see any positive implications by limping this hand pre.

As stated, the OP did limp with AA earlier, so I don't have a problem with the limp here (in this position).

 

[atomiktoaster]

At the risk of being results oriented, how does this play out differently if Hero raises instead of limps? Maybe he buys the blinds? My goal would be to get into a multi-way flop for cheap here, and the raise is just throwing money away IMO. Hero learned that wasn't possible for 400, instead of finding out for 2-3x the cost.

 

[slisk250]

....ahhh yes, this guy. I'm with the other Scott. Likely to shove...yes, shove and take him out.

 

[David O]

I think everyone remembers this player. I had a fun hand with him in the tourney and then had him at the same table in the circus game. Definite LAGtard and one you pick the right moment to battle stacks. Patience is a virtue