PLO8 Hand with a high only starter - .25/.50 (1 Viewer)

[MrCatPants]

Nearing the end of the night in a .25/.50 PLO game online with my usual crew.

Hero ($175) in the BB - perceived between TAG and LAG
Villain 1 ($300) in the hijack - spewy LAG maniac who makes hero calls for half the pot regularly; doesn't appear to have a fold button
Villian 2 ($350) on the button - LAG who has a fold button

Folds to Villian 1 who raises to $1.75
Villian 2 calls
SB folds
Hero looks down at

Action?

 

[Rhodeman77]

I have no problem calling a small raise with a strong high only hand against loose players that will call off.

I know I will be folding on a lot of flops, but when you smash a flop it can more than make up for the small pots you have to give up on.

 

[upNdown]

I have no problem calling a small raise with a strong high only hand against loose players that will call off.

I know I will be folding on a lot of flops, but when you smash a flop it can more than make up for the small pots you have to give up on.

Absolutely. Get in there. I might even reraise if it was a bit better, if II'm playing for quarters with my friends.

 

[FDLmold]

Easy call. Will be folding a lot of flops, and have to be careful of not getting freerolled by a made low with a better high draw.

 

[DrStrange]

I think this is a call. Call > fold >> raise.

Hero should be playing fit/fold post flop. The most important thing to avoid is be drawing for the high half when the low is already there. We can't let our sense of values from hold'em cloud our judgement in PLO8. Hero is looking to flop top set or a massive draw.

 

[detroitdad]

I have no problem calling a small raise with a strong high only hand against loose players that will call off.

I know I will be folding on a lot of flops, but when you smash a flop it can more than make up for the small pots you have to give up on.

Exactly what Adam said

 

[MrCatPants]

Ok. This one I think was pretty clear so I'll move forward a little quick.

Hero ($175) in the BB - perceived between TAG and LAG
Villain 1 ($300) in the hijack - spewy LAG maniac who makes hero calls for half the pot regularly; doesn't appear to have a fold button
Villian 2 ($350) on the button - LAG who has a fold button

Folds to Villian 1 who raises to $1.75
Villian 2 calls
SB folds
Hero looks down at

Hero CALLS.

Pot is $5.50

Flop is

Action on hero.

 

[mipevi]

Call pre, on the flop check to maniac.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I normally don’t fool around here and go ahead and lead out for pot. If someone has the case Q we are going to get the money in early and fast.

There is a good chance this checks through even with Lags if you don’t bet it.

Last night I flopped a full house on a 933dd board and bet every street. I was called down by the nut flush draw that he hit on the turn. Nothing like calling to hit your hand drawing dead. Lags will find a reason to continue. They may have 109A2 or AAxx and call a bet. AK102 would continue as well.

 

[redwine]

I have no problem calling a small raise with a strong high only hand against loose players that will call off.

I know I will be folding on a lot of flops, but when you smash a flop it can more than make up for the small pots you have to give up on.

I'm actually in the other camp. 60% of runouts have a low in them. You are immediately punting 30% of equity just by not even being able to qualify for a low. I don't play a ton of PLO8 but that its really hard to win longterm when you're fighting uphill that much. I almost never play a high-only hand in plo8.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I'm actually in the other camp. 60% of runouts have a low in them. You are immediately punting 30% of equity just by not even being able to qualify for a low. I don't play a ton of PLO8 but that its really hard to win longterm when you're fighting uphill that much. I almost never play a high-only hand in plo8.

100% of hands have a high. When you smash a flop with top set and the nut flush draw and two or 3 people are chasing worse highs and their low draw, even if they hit you get the high 1/2 and they get 1/4 or 1/6 potentially. The multi way facet of having multiple people chasing a low makes up for that. 3 handed I don’t like it nearly as much as a full table.

and just because a low is possible doesn’t mean someone will have a qualifying low hand. And if they do, do they want to call off their stack to chop? A nut high hand can apply a lot more pressure than a low draw or even made nut low can take.

with no high hand and the possibility of getting counterfeited or 1/4 a nut low will have to fold often.

 

[detroitdad]

pot

 

[redwine]

100% of hands have a high. When you smash a flop with top set and the nut flush draw and two or 3 people are chasing worse highs and their low draw, even if they hit you get the high 1/2 and they get 1/4 or 1/6 potentially. The multi way facet of having multiple people chasing a low makes up for that. 3 handed I don’t like it nearly as much as a full table.

and just because a low is possible doesn’t mean someone will have a qualifying low hand. And if they do, do they want to call off their stack to chop? A nut high hand can apply a lot more pressure than a low draw or even made nut low can take.

with no high hand and the possibility of getting counterfeited or 1/4 a nut low will have to fold often.

This is probably right... like I said, not very good at plo8

 

[Kain8]

No low possible, nut trips, and a gutshot seems pretty good to checkraise with!

 

[Darson]

Dan and Anders?

 

[Rhodeman77]

This is probably right... like I said, not very good at plo8

also, 60% assumes you get to the river.

lots of times you flop the nut low draw but not much for a high hand. There is a pot sized bet and you call along another person. Now the board pairs the board and the flop bettor bets pot again. Are you going to call with your nut low draw hoping to get your money back if they already have a full house? If you are playing right, no. It gets folded out and the high hand scoops the pot.

 

[DrStrange]

Five buck or pot. I'd rather not be tricky / trappy for small bets.

Hero is not a lock to win, but he does have a lot of equity. Let's bleed the draws and hope someone hits broadway while Hero his his full house.

If everyone checks / folds, well Hero wasn't fated to win much money.

Be mindful free cards are death in Omaha. Every card can be a two out dagger if it doesn't improve Hero's hand more.

Your cards ain't going to bet themselves -=- DrStrange

 

[MrCatPants]

Dan and Anders?

No. Since I merged in my cigar store group I've got a few more LAGs. Dan is like super tame in comparison to these two. The spewy one out anders' anders.

 

[Darson]

No. Since I merged in my cigar store group I've got a few more LAGs. Dan is like super tame in comparison to these two. The spewy one out anders' anders.

Wow! Sounds like a lot of fun. But probably not good for the blood pressure!

 

[MrCatPants]

Ok. Still pretty straightforward so going to start ratcheting up the interest level/discussion.

Hero ($175) in the BB - perceived between TAG and LAG
Villain 1 ($300) in the hijack - spewy LAG maniac who makes hero calls for half the pot regularly; doesn't appear to have a fold button
Villian 2 ($350) on the button - LAG who has a fold button

Folds to Villian 1 who raises to $1.75
Villian 2 calls
SB folds
Hero looks down at

Hero CALLS.

Pot is $5.50

Flop is

Action on hero.

Hero POTS ($5.50)
Villain 1 REPOTS ($22.50)
Villain 2 CALLS ($22.50)

Pot is $51 - hero faces an additional $17 to call.

Action on hero.

 

[MrCatPants]

Wow! Sounds like a lot of fun. But probably not good for the blood pressure!

You need to come out to the mavens site!

 

[redwine]

Hero POTS ($5.50)
Villain 1 REPOTS ($22.50)
Villain 2 CALLS ($22.50)

Pot is $51 - hero faces an additional $17 to call.

Action on hero.

Weird. V2's gotta be holding a Q right? That only leaves JJ? But he's supposed to be a spewy LAG. oof. You're gonna get bombed on the turn and river, this is tough. I'd probably call once, but not loving it.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Does the software allow run it twice? And if so do you?

If it does, and you do, jam and take your chances.

crazy is QJxx and JJxx. I have seen it happen in my basement more than once. Having the second King in your hand hurts your chances to fill up. I’m calling to keep the weaker hands in.

I’m planning on checking the turn unless it is a King or Ace to see what they do before proceeding.

 

[MrCatPants]

Software does not allow running it twice.

 

[MrCatPants]

Hero ($175) in the BB - perceived between TAG and LAG
Villain 1 ($300) in the hijack - spewy LAG maniac who makes hero calls for half the pot regularly; doesn't appear to have a fold button
Villian 2 ($350) on the button - LAG who has a fold button

Folds to Villian 1 who raises to $1.75
Villian 2 calls
SB folds
Hero looks down at

Hero CALLS.

Pot is $5.50

Flop is

Hero POTS ($5.50)
Villain 1 REPOTS ($22.50)
Villain 2 CALLS ($22.50)
Hero CALLS

Pot is $68

Turn is

Action on hero.

 

[Kain8]

Nut straight with a royal draw?! I want to say, Let's get it ON! I'm talking @Anthony Martino making out with Lady Liberty on!

But... with 2 opponents, I'm less thrilled about leading out. You can happily check and see what develops here.

 

[Rhodeman77]

While Hero improved Q10xx, and 1010xx are now also beating Hero.

I’m check calling pretty much call any bet here.

Let’s not forget this is an O8 hand so Villians “should” have 2 low cards in their hand most of the time.

 

[JustinInMN]

So pre, I like the flat here, out of position with a good one way hand here. In a better position I would probably tend to go for the isolation raise.

On the flop definitely agree with the bet here. Weird that it got repotted, so someone else may have a full, but we can outdraw that.

On the turn I am more excited about the RF draw than making a straight because we may have to beat an underfull to win. But we have 5 clean outs to the moral nuts :As:), plus two additional aces to a probable win unless one villian has exactly AAxx (which we should be a little concerned about given the action.) Plus a straight might be good and we will make a flush.with any other spade, but obviously -xs could be out.

So many clean outs with a chance to get paid big, I think you can check and call here.

Let’s not forget this is an O8 hand so Villians “should” have 2 low cards in their hand most of the time.

Normally I would agree, but given the flop action, I think it's more likely that usually someone else is on a high only hand.

 

[DrStrange]

Even with villain's reputation I am not liking this so much. How reclass can he be? Is he repoting on a draw? A worse trips? I see the verbage suggests the villain is a calling station more than aggressive.

Let's not make matters harder by betting and getting raised again. I lean towards a check/call. But with some more villain data I could make that a check/fold.

This is going to hurt. Hero is going to face an all-in on the river many times. And Hero really only has six or seven outs.

I am already hurting -=- DrStrange

 

[MrCatPants]

Agree that the 10 hurts more than it helps, but there could have been worse turns. At least we gained a clean out.

Hero ($175) in the BB - perceived between TAG and LAG
Villain 1 ($300) in the hijack - spewy LAG maniac who makes hero calls for half the pot regularly; doesn't appear to have a fold button
Villian 2 ($350) on the button - LAG who has a fold button

Folds to Villian 1 who raises to $1.75
Villian 2 calls
SB folds
Hero looks down at

Hero CALLS.

Pot is $5.50

Flop is

Hero POTS ($5.50)
Villain 1 REPOTS ($22.50)
Villain 2 CALLS ($22.50)
Hero CALLS

Pot is $68

Turn is

Hero CHECKS
Villain 1 POTS ($68)
Villian 2 CALLS ($68)

Action on hero.