PLO at the casino (1 Viewer)

[Rhodeman77]

This hand comes from one of my good poker friends that I talk hands with a lot. I don’t have all of the other player info as much as I would like but I feel it is an interesting hand to discuss for a few reasons.

Game is $1/2 ($5) PLO

There is a button straddle on making it $15 to go. There is a call from the BB and a raise to $60 from UTG+1. Three people call the $60 when action gets to Hero in the Cut Off

Hero holds KQhhQJ
What does hero do?

Button (straddle) still to act as well as the BB limper.

Hero’s stack is $2k and the rest of the players involved range from $1700 to over $2k.

 

[Perthmike]

I played plo for the first time today, but I’m thinking i’d channel my inner @detroitdad and @MatB and yell “pot motherfucker”.

But then there’s a reason I avoid plo at the casino, because I expect I’d go broke.

 

[honkydevil]

I don’t think it’s good enough to pot without an A or 2 suits. I’m assuming this is a sticky table and you couldn’t successfully thin the field too much either.

 

[davin]

I flat call and hope to see a flop

 

[detroitdad]

I don’t think it’s good enough to pot without an A or 2 suits. I’m assuming this is a sticky table and you couldn’t successfully thin the field too much either.

I flat call and hope to see a flop

I agree. Call

 

[Kain8]

Calling is fine, easy enough to know where you are on most flops. If you call and the button makes the re-raise, happily fold.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Flat call. Not having suited A here could be problem.

 

[MatB]

I played plo for the first time today, but I’m thinking i’d channel my inner @detroitdad and @MatB and yell “pot motherfucker”.

But then there’s a reason I avoid plo at the casino, because I expect I’d go broke.

I have lost my shirt twice now, playing PLO 1/3 at a card room. It's brutal.

 

[CantSpellPoker]

I don’t play PLO, but this seems like a call to me. Probably folding to another raise.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Hero calls the $60 bet, unfortunately the Button raises to $260 total.

Everyone calls back to Hero. It’s $200 more to call.

What does Hero do?

 

[honkydevil]

Everyone calls back to Hero

Lol so 6 people are in for $260 already? If you call your SPR is ~1. So you’ll shove or fold the flop. Have to hit a flop. I worry about BTN and UTG+1 having better hands. I think I’d fold but curious what everyone would do. Maybe I’m a nit.

 

[Kain8]

We're getting bloody nearly 8 to 1 on a call, but we have no wiggle room postflop. Either we smash by flopping a nut straight with a re-draw to nut hearts, a boat, or top set on a super dry board like Q 7 2 rainbow.

But with that many callers already, it'd be a bloody miracle if even any broadway cards flop at all. You're probably lighting $200 on fire by calling, so I'd pack it in and consider the $60 loss a mixed blessing.

 

[detroitdad]

The action closes with you Adam? I'm probably calling. I'm guessing its a horrible decision. Fuck it.

ou're probably lighting $200 on fire by calling,

Burn baby burn!!

 

[CraigT78]

Hero calls the $60 bet, unfortunately the Button raises to $260 total.

Everyone calls back to Hero. It’s $200 more to call.

What does Hero do?

Call and announce "well, if everyone else is doing it"

 

[DrStrange]

Hero would benefit greatly knowing how button treats his straddle. It would be great to see a $60 flop. But plenty of people treat a button straddle as a "must raise" situation. I want to call. I don't want to put 10% - 15% of my stack into a pot where I should fold most flops. I vote call, but would switch to fold if button is likely to raise.

Now that the pot is huge, hero needs to ask himself what his plan is for the flop. Is he set mining / hoping to flop a big draw or fold? i.e. fit or fold? Hero is paying $200 to draw at a $1,300 pot plus implied odds. I think the fit/fold plan is getting adequate odds to draw. But hero can bleed out fast paying $260 to play fit or fold.

I think folding and calling are about equal. Raising seems unwise without some good villain reads.

 

[Rhodeman77]

The action closes with you Adam? I'm probably calling. I'm guessing its a horrible decision. Fuck it.




Burn baby burn!!

Yes, if Hero calls it closes the action.

 

[honkydevil]

Call and announce "well, if everyone else is doing it"

 

[Rhodeman77]

Hero would benefit greatly knowing how button treats his straddle. It would be great to see a $60 flop. But plenty of people treat a button straddle as a "must raise" situation. I want to call. I don't want to put 10% - 15% of my stack into a pot where I should fold most flops. I vote call, but would switch to fold if button is likely to raise.

Now that the pot is huge, hero needs to ask himself what his plan is for the flop. Is he set mining / hoping to flop a big draw or fold? i.e. fit or fold? Hero is paying $200 to draw at a $1,300 pot plus implied odds. I think the fit/fold plan is getting adequate odds to draw. But hero can bleed out fast paying $260 to play fit or fold.

I think folding and calling are about equal. Raising seems unwise without some good villain reads.

Hero felt the Button wasn’t raising just to raise. That he had a very strong hand, most likely AA.

He hadn’t been raising every straddle in the past.

 

[Perthmike]

Hero calls the $60 bet, unfortunately the Button raises to $260 total.

Everyone calls back to Hero. It’s $200 more to call.

What does Hero do?

Only reason I wanted to pot motherfucker rather than call.

 

[Rhodeman77]

It is pretty good assumption to put Button on AA. We don’t block it at all, if any of the other players had AA they would have reraised the $260 to try to isolate being able to get stacks in preflop.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Hero was planning on folding if the button raised, but the pot odds being so good and the potential implied odds if she smashes the flop make her go with the crying call.

Flop is pretty decent for Hero:
J103 rainbow (no hearts)

BB bets $1500 (pretty much all in), UTG +1 goes all in for about $1700. Folds to Hero.

What does Hero do?

Button is still act. We have top pair, over pair, and open-ended straight draw.

 

[davin]

GAMBOL

 

[Kain8]

Well, we can pretty much discount our straight draw entirely if we put the button on having AAxx. Literally every ace could be in other people's hole cards given how many went to see the flop. The big blind or UTG+1 could easily have something like KQTT, KQJ9, or even QJT9 and binked the flop like the Hero wanted to.

For the love of everything holy, fold and don't donk your stack away.

 

[gopherblue]

I’m jamming.


Which is why I have no bankroll.

 

[Moxie Mike]

In this situation I'm probably calling the $200 to close the preflop action just for the pot and implied odds - you're almost certain to get paid off by someone if you hit the flop.


The other question is how hard do you have to hit the flop to stack off? it's obviously going in if you flop the nuts - but how thin are you willing to put it in? What if the flop is (and you're facing a pot-size bet):

?

or

?

or

?

or

?

Where I'm going with this is if you need to flop top-set and/or the nut flush draw to justify a flop push, the math to call off $200 to see the flop probably isn't in your favor, since your hand still isn't always going to win at showdown.

 

[DrStrange]

That flop isn't a smash. Yes, it looks good to a hold'em player. Top pair plus an OESD or eight outs (at best) plus some faint hope top pair somehow turns into a boat maybe? Also noting that the ace outs look to be blocked. And if Hero turns an ace, he has to worry that the newly minted top set turns into full house redraw.

Smashing the flop would be more like T 9 4 rainbow where Hero has a back door flush draw. 12 direct outs plus a couple more for runner-runner.

I think Hero is in bad shape. She has no fold equity. The queens, unimproved are not helpful. There is every chance Hero is drawing to a chop. Let me say how much I hate drawing to a chop - heads you win, tails we split the pot. YUCK.

I vote fold -=- DrStrange

 

[honkydevil]

Where I'm going with this is if you need to flop top-set and/or the nut flush draw to justify a flop push, the the math for to call off $200 to see the flop probably isn't in your favor, since your hand still isn't always going to win at showdown.

I think this sounds like the Miracle Flop Test.

 

[Moxie Mike]

I think this sounds like the Miracle Flop Test.

Apparently this has a name

 

[DoubleEagle]

Let me say how much I hate drawing to a chop - heads you win, tails we split the pot.

I’m stealing that line.

 

[honkydevil]

I wouldn’t call KQQJ trash but I think the flops you like are more limited in a multiway 3-Bet straddled pot.