PLO 15/30 scenario / hand discussion (1 Viewer)

Windwalker

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I’m super new to PLO, and have recently joined an online 15/30 club game filled with a bunch of decent players and a bunch of maniacs.

I’m still getting used to how close the equities are, but have been pondering a particular hand from a couple of nights ago, and how far off from “decent” my play was.

3 handed. Hero is in BB, with 796BB ($23,952), up from a 6k buy-in. Button is a LAG maniac with 140BB. SB is a good player, potential pro, has run up $6k buy in to 2096BB ($62,890). Hero’s image is all over the place, because he’s still trying to understand the game.

Hero has:

:ks::qd::qh::9h:

BTN folds.

Villain in SB raises to 93.

Hero?
 
Flat call and see a flop. The major difference between NLHE and PLO is that preflop equities are much closer together with PLO and change more dramatically postflop than with NLHE.

Hero has set mining potential with some wrap draws to straights but should proceed with caution on any non nutted flush draw. Even short handed hero should be very careful. Eager to see how this plays out.

@Anthony Martino
 
Against most other players I would see a flop. Against this villain, I am folding. Your villain is a semi-pro and you can pick better spots against the maniacs at the table.

This hand seems like it could get you in trouble because the villain could have a better heart draw. My guess is that your villain has an Ace heart draw along with a middle pocket pair.
 
Against most other players I would see a flop. Against this villain, I am folding. Your villain is a semi-pro and you can pick better spots against the maniacs at the table.

This hand seems like it could get you in trouble because the villain could have a better heart draw. My guess is that your villain has an Ace heart draw along with a middle pocket pair.
Well, an Ace draw. No clue if it’s hearts. Maybe less likely bc you have a few heart blockers if we want to get really specific.

And agree, the flush draw is pointless to chase bc if you hit your not raising. Maybe you backdoor it and it’s checked to you would be the only flush hand you would be comfortable counting on.
 
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I could see a call or a raise here. We have position, and the 9 suited to our queen is not useless. Since our gap is at the bottom of our run, the hand is much more playable. Straights we make are nutted. KQQ9 is so much better than KTT9. Since the SB is a much better player than we are, probably lean toward call.
 
I’m super new to PLO, and have recently joined an online 15/30 club game filled with a bunch of decent players and a bunch of maniacs.

I’m still getting used to how close the equities are, but have been pondering a particular hand from a couple of nights ago, and how far off from “decent” my play was.

3 handed. Hero is in BB, with 796BB ($23,952), up from a 6k buy-in. Button is a LAG maniac with 140BB. SB is a good player, potential pro, has run up $6k buy in to 2096BB ($62,890). Hero’s image is all over the place, because he’s still trying to understand the game.

Hero has:

:ks::qd::qh::9h:

BTN folds.

Villain in SB raises to 93.

Hero?
I’d flat, but honestly if you want real guidance there are some great PLO coaches out there, and it would save you a ton of money long term if you went to them instead of a bunch of chip nerds for advice.
 
I will preface this by saying:

1. I don't tend to play such shorthanded games. I imagine advice from Jnandez whose focus seems to be online 6-max would be better suited than my full-ring approach

2. I am unaccustomed to playing this deep-stacked. It certainly creates more opportunities to make plays and pick off bluffs

All that being said, 3-handed with position I might 3-bet as we block KKxx, we have the pair of Queens and our cards coordinate together to make straights

That being said, if we elect to 3-bet, the pro may narrow our range and bluff us off flops that look bad for us

So you can certainly cold-call, keeping your range wide. Then YOU can rep the 568 flops AND if the flop does actually hit you, you have that going as well

I'm never folding to 1 raise 3 handed deepstacked with position here in PLO with a hand this strong preflop

Having position is HUGE this deep
 
Another thought, the worst we can lose this hand to pot bets and just calling down, never raising, is about 80 big blinds. 3BB preflop, 6BB on the flop, 18BB on the turn, and 54BB on the river. So even if we feel timid and overwhelmed, our loss can be quantified because it's pot limit heads up. Long term, that's a terrible way to think. But short term, while we are learning, that kind of math can be helpful.
 
Continuing…

3 handed. Hero is in BB, with 796BB ($23,952), up from a 6k buy-in. Button is a LAG maniac with 140BB. SB is a good player, potential pro, has run up $6k buy in to 2096BB ($62,890). Hero’s image is all over the place, because he’s still trying to understand the game.

Hero has:

:ks::qd::qh::9h:

BTN folds.

Villain in SB raises to 93.

We have position, and we’re playing super deep. Hero decides to 3bet, as Villain knows he’s better, and has been raising almost every hand preflop, often showing down mediocre hands, just played really well post-flop.

Hero raises to 342.

Villain calls.

Pot is 702.

Flop is:

:qc::6d::td:

Villain bets 75% of pot, 526.50.

Hero?
 
This smacks hero hard. Top set with a gutshot redraw. Hero blocks top set and villain could be betting with a lot of lower sets, two pairs, straight draws, and diamond draws.

Hero has the effective nuts with a small chance of improving. I repot and see what the villain does. I don't just call and give the villain a chance to improve on the turn for a low price. It may sound tight, but I repot/call to any additional action, but could find a fold if a diamond comes on any subsequent streets.
 
Continuing…

3 handed. Hero is in BB, with 796BB ($23,952), up from a 6k buy-in. Button is a LAG maniac with 140BB. SB is a good player, potential pro, has run up $6k buy in to 2096BB ($62,890). Hero’s image is all over the place, because he’s still trying to understand the game.

Hero has:

:ks::qd::qh::9h:

BTN folds.

Villain in SB raises to 93.

We have position, and we’re playing super deep. Hero decides to 3bet, as Villain knows he’s better, and has been raising almost every hand preflop, often showing down mediocre hands, just played really well post-flop.

Hero raises to 342.

Villain calls.

Pot is 702.

Flop is:

:qc::6d::td:

Villain bets 75% of pot, 526.50.

Hero?
Pot!
 
I flat preflop to play pot control with position. Until you establish that you will 3 bet a pretty wide range of hands it may make it easy for Villain to narrow your range a lot. As played pile the money in now while you have the nuts, over 1/2 the deck will change that on the turn. Make him decide how much he likes his hand/draw.
 
3 bet pre flop here is a must 3-handed in position against a villain that is raising this wide. You got a great flop. The nuts nuts for now. You can be behind a wrap with a diamond draw, but that's a very specific holding that you won't be up against often enough for you to play this one timidly on the flop. You need to raise with a pot sized bet here. If villain repots it back, only then are you in trouble.
 
3 bet pre flop here is a must 3-handed in position against a villain that is raising this wide. You got a great flop. The nuts nuts for now. You can be behind a wrap with a diamond draw, but that's a very specific holding that you won't be up against often enough for you to play this one timidly on the flop. You need to raise with a pot sized bet here. If villain repots it back, only then are you in trouble.
Even against :ad::jc::kc::9d: you still have 46.7% equity.
 
Continuing…

3 handed. Hero is in BB, with 796BB ($23,952), up from a 6k buy-in. Button is a LAG maniac with 140BB. SB is a good player, potential pro, has run up $6k buy in to 2096BB ($62,890). Hero’s image is all over the place, because he’s still trying to understand the game.

Hero has:

:ks::qd::qh::9h:

BTN folds.

Villain in SB raises to 93.

We have position, and we’re playing super deep. Hero decides to 3bet, as Villain knows he’s better, and has been raising almost every hand preflop, often showing down mediocre hands, just played really well post-flop.

Hero raises to 342.

Villain calls.

Pot is 702.

Flop is:

:qc::6d::td:

Villain bets 75% of pot, 526.50.

Note: as I mentioned earlier, this thread was created to see how far from good my newbie PLO play is, and the comments indicate it’s pretty far.

Hero calls.

Turn is :tc:

Villain bets 877.50.

From the comments above, now that I’ve nutted my hand and he keeps leading out, I assume the best course of play would be to call again, so that he could make a flush draw, or fill out a smaller boat. But nope.

Hero raises to 4387.50.

Villain folds.

I guess I played the hand almost directly opposite of how it should be played. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

317DF518-D857-432B-A4FE-95E5A88A0DB6.jpeg
 
Continuing…

3 handed. Hero is in BB, with 796BB ($23,952), up from a 6k buy-in. Button is a LAG maniac with 140BB. SB is a good player, potential pro, has run up $6k buy in to 2096BB ($62,890). Hero’s image is all over the place, because he’s still trying to understand the game.

Hero has:

:ks::qd::qh::9h:

BTN folds.

Villain in SB raises to 93.

We have position, and we’re playing super deep. Hero decides to 3bet, as Villain knows he’s better, and has been raising almost every hand preflop, often showing down mediocre hands, just played really well post-flop.

Hero raises to 342.

Villain calls.

Pot is 702.

Flop is:

:qc::6d::td:

Villain bets 75% of pot, 526.50.

Note: as I mentioned earlier, this thread was created to see how far from good my newbie PLO play is, and the comments indicate it’s pretty far.

Hero calls.

Turn is :tc:

Villain bets 877.50.

From the comments above, now that I’ve nutted my hand and he keeps leading out, I assume the best course of play would be to call again, so that he could make a flush draw, or fill out a smaller boat. But nope.

Hero raises to 4387.50.

Villain folds.

I guess I played the hand almost directly opposite of how it should be played. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

View attachment 988414
Hmmmm not necessarily.

@ the flop you certainly could have and should usually raise.

Turn card = now it’s a full house game or quads. If he has Q10, 66, maybe 610, you’re getting paid w the turn raise. And you may not have got paid on turn if you had raised on the flop!

Checking turn I don’t think helps you out. Even if he hits a flush or straight on the river your not getting any bets or calls from Villian.

Since you checked flop (incorrect) atleast betting turn was probably correct!
 
The turn is going to be very tricky. You have the nuts for now but you don't have much for redraw - 8 cards for quads/boat. The J will give you a straight but it's one you won't be confident about.

The turn will likely bring something you don't want to see. Any diamond, paint, or 7-9.

Some will say repot to charge draws. If he's got one of the wraps and/or flush draw, he's likely calling/raising any size raise. So you're bloating a pot and making the turn a more difficult decision.

If you flat, you continue to control the pot size and see what the turn brings. As it is likely going to be an undesirable card that fills a draw, the benefit is you continue to control the pot size. Flatting in this spot on occasion also helps disguise your hand. He'll have a harder time putting you on the boat if the board pairs. So increases the chances of getting paid when you get there.
 
The turn is going to be very tricky. You have the nuts for now but you don't have much for redraw - 8 cards for quads/boat. The J will give you a straight but it's one you won't be confident about.

The turn will likely bring something you don't want to see. Any diamond, paint, or 7-9.

Some will say repot to charge draws. If he's got one of the wraps and/or flush draw, he's likely calling/raising any size raise. So you're bloating a pot and making the turn a more difficult decision.

If you flat, you continue to control the pot size and see what the turn brings. As it is likely going to be an undesirable card that fills a draw, the benefit is you continue to control the pot size. Flatting in this spot on occasion also helps disguise your hand. He'll have a harder time putting you on the boat if the board pairs. So increases the chances of getting paid when you get there.
Well said!
 
I guess I played the hand almost directly opposite of how it should be played. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
Nah, lots of ways to play PLO well, the only clear mistake IMO was the raise sizing on the turn. You don’t have the nuts but you are crushing everything else. If raising, a small stabby / inducing size should work better.
 
You hit the flop hard and have straight and flush blockers, which are relevent.

Raising isn't terrible, but I don't mind a call. It disguises your strength, allows villian to continue bluffing the turn and also allows you to see a safe turn before bloating the pot

Ugh, I hate your turn raise. You're really only worried about a river Ace or Ten, and even then 3-handed he doesn't have to improve on either of those

I flat the turn to keep in his bluffs and draws. He can still barrel rivers into you if he flushes or straightens, or if draws whiff and he thinks you missed so he bluffs
 
You hit the flop hard and have straight and flush blockers, which are relevent.

Raising isn't terrible, but I don't mind a call. It disguises your strength, allows villian to continue bluffing the turn and also allows you to see a safe turn before bloating the pot

Ugh, I hate your turn raise. You're really only worried about a river Ace or Ten, and even then 3-handed he doesn't have to improve on either of those

I flat the turn to keep in his bluffs and draws. He can still barrel rivers into you if he flushes or straightens, or if draws whiff and he thinks you missed so he bluffs
Hmmm
 
Not sure how to play this, honestly. I’ve never had the turn pair the board when I’m holding top set unless it gave Villain quads.

Seems to be a one off player dependent spot. I would’ve open folded the flop fwiw.
 
No I liked your advice. Hmm got me thinking.

I’m raising on the turn to build a big pot hoping Villian has a boat too.

The problem with a turn raise is that we block boats for villian. There's only one Q unaccounted for. So we are hoping he has QT, T6 or 66

However he could be barreling with any flush draw, any Tx that isn't boated or straight draws, amd of course bluffs

Raising is bad because we're pushing out his holdings that could still bet rivers (draws that come in, Tx that don't fill or bluffs)

I like how Krish played pre and flop, but hate the turn raise against an opponent known to bluff
 

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