Playing Big Slick on the Button! (1 Viewer)

[AdamAAAA]

I don't think I played this one too badly, but I'm not sure on my play at the end and whether what I was thinking was correct. I'd also like some advice on my bet sizing (something I'm still working on). I'll go through my thoughts as I played the hand.

The blinds are 300/600 with (90) antes

Hero is on the button and looks down at Ace King. Three callers ahead of hero, taking the pot to 3,510.

Action on Hero
What sort of size should I be looking to raise this to considering there are essentially 4 people in the pot already (including the big blind)?

 

[mummel]

What do you want to achieve with the raise?

 

[DrStrange]

My tournament game is weak. I think a raise to 3,500 (2,900 raise into a 4,100 pot) seems about right.

 

[derekdd23]

I would be betting about 2100 to get some value from this hand. I tend to increase my raise sizing when there are a ton of limpers for both protection and value.

 

[mummel]

My tournament game is weak. I think a raise to 3,500 (2,900 raise into a 4,100 pot) seems about right.

Same, but man this hand, its owned me many times. If the flop sucks, you're forced to bluff / continuation bet, and it can get very expensive if things dont go your way. I would size the bet to get to heads up, and then place a big enough bet to force the fold. If you 3 bet here, you'll probably get more than one caller.

 

[kirchhausen]

Pt sized bet would actually be $4710. Let's make it $4,200. If we take it down now we just increased our stack by almost 15%. If not, we at least thin the herd and have a better chance of taking it down post flop. Raising too small will just be a pot builder, and with a lower SPR our positional advantage goes away.

 

[AdamAAAA]

What do you want to achieve with the raise?

This is where my game fails me sometimes. I think I've mentioned in previous strategy posts whilst I'm not new to poker, I'm new to learning poker strategy. I get myself into sticky situations where I'm raising for value when I should be raising for protection and visa versa and struggle identifying the correct play in the correct situation.

I have a hard time raising correctly. When I want value I seem to fold out my opponents and when I want protection I get a bunch of callers. In this instance I didn't want protection. I wanted to get value and keep as many people in the hand without investing too much. Hit the flop and then as pre-flop aggressor I'd try thin out the field.

Note: this could be a really bad way of assessing the situation, but with so many limping I thought there was more value to be had this way?

 

[Jimulacrum]

I have a hard time raising correctly. When I want value I seem to fold out my opponents and when I want protection I get a bunch of callers. In this instance I didn't want protection. I wanted to get value and keep as many people in the hand without investing too much. Hit the flop and then as pre-flop aggressor I'd try thin out the field.

The trouble with keeping lots of people in preflop and then trying to thin the field on the flop is that it means the average hand on the flop will be much stronger than if you thin the field preflop.

I'd like a raise to 3K or maybe 3,500 preflop, but it's hard to pick an exact size without having watched the tendencies of the players.

 

[AdamAAAA]

The trouble with keeping lots of people in preflop and then trying to thin the field on the flop is that it means the average hand on the flop will be much stronger than if you thin the field preflop.

I'd like a raise to 3K or maybe 3,500 preflop, but it's hard to pick an exact size without having watched the tendencies of the players.

Thanks, that makes sense. I guess letting others in too cheaply allows medium or even weak hands the opportunity to flop something a lot stronger than what I have, which I guess is essentially Ace high.

 

[AdamAAAA]

So keeping with my theme of raising far too light (others would have seen this from previous threads I've done) I raised the paltry sum of 1,480 into a 3,510 pot. I know my sizing is an issue and it's something I'm struggling to find balance with. I need to work more on this and perhaps I'll put my head back in the books for a couple of weeks. I have three-weeks off over Christmas so I'll be making sure I try tighten up this part of my game for sure.

So the blinds fold and I'm called by the three limpers. The pot is now 7,630 and the flop comes 8c 10d Kc

Again it is checked to me.

Action on Hero
With top pair and two clubs on the board I'm going to bet here, but what size bet should I be looking at? Spoiler alert, I bet far too small. Again.

 

[derekdd23]

5000, gives you a pot sized stack on the turn if there is one caller, decent sized stack if more call and leaves you with a playable stack if the turn is a horrible card and the is a lot of action.

 

[AlPresidente]

How deep are we in this tourny? If people have already committed some hours and many of the weakest have been eliminated, I raise less. Start of a tourny, 3600 would be reasonable but near the bubble 2100 achieves much the same. Looks like we're a fair way in & 2700-3000 is a reasonable size to me on the button in a cheap tournament.

On the flop, we're 4-way and the flop's pretty wet. 5000 seems reasonable to me.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I'm on board for 5K as well.

 

[AdamAAAA]

5000, gives you a pot sized stack on the turn if there is one caller, decent sized stack if more call and leaves you with a playable stack if the turn is a horrible card and the is a lot of action.

This is another hole in my game. I know I need to be trying to setup a pot size bet when this shallow, but it's not until afterwards I think about doing this.

How deep are we in this tourny? If people have already committed some hours and many of the weakest have been eliminated, I raise less. Start of a tourny, 3600 would be reasonable but near the bubble 2100 achieves much the same. Looks like we're a fair way in & 2700-3000 is a reasonable size to me on the button in a cheap tournament.

On the flop, we're 4-way and the flop's pretty wet. 5000 seems reasonable to me.

It's quite early. I think there were 6,600 entries and we we're only at 300/600 blinds.

I'm on board for 5K as well.

It seems a lot are on board with the 5k bet. Larger bets had been folding out a lot of the action on this table, and I wanted to get called by worse hands, but not letting in too many weak hands. Perhaps this was a mistake at this stage of the tournament and considering I was quite shallow compared to those I was up against I maybe should have bet more.

I have my Pokerstars post-flop sliders on 34%, 68%, pot, and max. I think too often I opt for 34% and guess I need to work on this more as most hands I seem to come away thinking I played too weak and should have been stronger with my betting.

 

[AdamAAAA]

I bet only a third of the pot, 2,594 and had only one caller. The turn is 2d and I'm sure I'm ahead here.

Again it is checked to me.

Action on Hero
I'm thinking at this stage I have to be ahead still. I figure he probably has a weaker king, or second pair. He could have JQ or AQ as well sometimes, but not sure he's limping these hands from MP.

I could check back here, but then this gives him a chance at bluffing the river if a scare card like a club or J, Q, or A comes. A large bet may win the pot now, and it's likely a smaller bet is called. I still have a good hand and a hand that must be ahead. He'd have raised trips and possibly even two pair.

What's the play?

 

[derekdd23]

The board is too wet to check, there are 2 flush draws and a bunch of straight draws, the problem is your previous bets left you with a weird stack size. Any bet leaves you super short on the river and a shove makes him fold all 1 pair hands that you have in so much trouble.

Given the way it was played I would bet 6k leaving you with 20 bigs if the river is not favorable, it is also about half pot which leaves you with another half pot river bet.

 

[AlPresidente]

Bet 7000 for the reasons stated above.

 

[AdamAAAA]

The board is too wet to check, there are 2 flush draws and a bunch of straight draws, the problem is your previous bets left you with a weird stack size. Any bet leaves you super short on the river and a shove makes him fold all 1 pair hands that you have in so much trouble.

Given the way it was played I would bet 6k leaving you with 20 bigs if the river is not favorable, it is also about half pot which leaves you with another half pot river bet.

Bet 7000 for the reasons stated above.

I actually bet 6,500 and villain put me all in. Which I guess is the situation I didn't really want? Has he sensed weakness in my small bets and thought he could bluff me off my hand now? Has the second diamond given him a flush and straight draw? Does he have something bad like second pair? At this point I didn't know what to do.

My thinking was that if he had any real strength before this hand he'd have raised my small bets. A 2d only gives him a flush draw as I don't think it would have improved his hand any other way. He can't have two pair really unless he has exactly K 10 as I'm pretty sure he's not playing 8 10, 8 2 or 10 2 this way.

Action on hero
What's the correct play here based on his actions so far in this hand?

 

[Jimulacrum]

I'm folding there. Given pot and stack sizes, and the action so far, Villain has to expect to get called very often here, so this is likely a value bet. I don't know many players who would take this line with less than TPTK, or even with TPTK, for that matter.

 

[AlPresidente]

Call. The board's too wet, the bet's too small and our hand's too strong to fold. It's quite unlikely he has a set and we have redraws against 2 pairs.

 

[AdamAAAA]

I called.

I couldn't put him on a better hand here. I didn't think he could have trips from the way he played and he was either drawing or trying to push me off the hand. I don't know how close to the bubble we were here, I'm guessing quite far off it.

Despite winning the hand I don't know if calling was the correct play.

 

[onerand]

Bet sizing is too small preflop and on flop multuway. Turn bet call is good.