Play a preflop with me: QQ on button (1 Viewer)

[grebe]

OK, so this is only interesting preflop, but had a couple decisions and reads, so I thought it was worthy of posting up. I'll put spoilers in case anybody wants to play "guess that hand"

Game: .25/.50 9 max table on Bovada. No real short stacks, UTG is shortest relevant stack with about $35. Hero has $65, everybody else is around $50.

-No reads currently, however Hero has taken down last three hands with 3-bets that did not make it past the flop. His image is probably leaning strongly towards LAG.

Action:

UTG: Raises $1.50 (table average sizing)
LoJack: call
Button (Hero) with QQ: ???

 

[Legend5555]

Slam dunk 3 bet to anything between $7-$8.50.

 

[JTBass]

I'd make it 5.50

 

[boltonguy]

$7.50 (4x plus one for the caller)

 

[detroitdad]

Raise to 6 bucks

 

[cpac54]

3bet. I'd make it around $6-7.50

 

[Trihonda]

I make it $6.50, which is just a $5 call for mr $1.50 guy..

 

[grebe]

I agree, with everyone...I should be raising here. In game, I called, here's why:
-I had 3bet the last three hands (and won all three) and not shown down my decent hands. I really feel that my 3 bet will be discounted here (which is good), but also could warrant a light 4 bet from UTG....which would be bad. Any 4 bet from UTG, and I have to fold. So I call....evaluate a flop and hope to not be forced to play for stacks against what should be a strong range from UTG.

ACTION:

SB: RAISE to $7.00
UTG: Call
LoJack: Call
Hero: ???

 

[Legend5555]

I agree, with everyone...I should be raising here. In game, I called, here's why:
-I had 3bet the last three hands (and won all three) and not shown down my decent hands. I really feel that my 3 bet will be discounted here (which is good), but also could warrant a light 4 bet from UTG....which would be bad. Any 4 bet from UTG, and I have to fold. So I call....evaluate a flop and hope to not be forced to play for stacks against what should be a strong range from UTG.

ACTION:

SB: RAISE to $7.00
UTG: Call
LoJack: Call
Hero: ???

If you think the UTG will light 4 bet you, then why is that bad? I agree normally at a full ring game folding QQ to a 4 bet in this configuration might be warranted. But if you think they are not going to give you credit, then certainly QQ is good enough to go with.

As played, back jamming QQ here against a SB 3 bet in this configuration in online full ring is probably lighting $$$ on fire. You will have the best position with SB having to c-bet (or not) first and getting to see everyone's action before you. But you can't fold given the pot odds and your underrepped hand.

 

[boltonguy]

$5.5 to call and the pot is $23, so about 4:1.
I think the rule of thumb for set mining is that you need implied odds to win at least 20x the bet size to call.
$5.5 x 20 = $110. You'd have to get almost all the money in from all three players for this to be a call IMHO.
I think it's borderline but cant fault a fold or a call here. I'm probably folding but folding is boring.

 

[grebe]

Interesting takes from @Legend5555 and @boltonguy. I agree my thinking was flawed on not 3 betting my QQ, especially into multiple players. TBH, I was just thinking how awful a 4 bet would have been from UTG. Not thinking that by not 3 betting him, we have no idea how strong his range would be going forward. Definitely a mistake.

 

[boltonguy]

I'd three bet to get HU and would call a 4bet IP with QQ.
Appreciate your concerns about your image but getting 4! light is a good thing!

 

[Trihonda]

I'm so confused by this hand... I don't know that I'm ever flatting w/ QQ in a multi-way pot, especially IP. Probably not folding to a 4! from UTG. There are two hands that have us crushed, but we're racing against AK and dominating everything else. Given the pot odds with dead money, We love our odds against AK.

 

[detroitdad]

If you think your opponents are smart enough to put a "LAG" tag on you. Then use this to your advantage. If they truly think your a LAG, then he could be 3 betting you with a wide range of hands. I'm probably throwing out 5 red chips.

 

[grebe]

Well, I see this squeeze from the SB as a gift from the Poker Dogs, as this could represent a wider range than what UTG should have (any suited aces, many broadway cards, lots of hands like suited connectors, etc....maybe AA or KK, but his range is certainly wide). The other GREAT piece of news is that UTG capped his range! LowJack is a fish for sure with a speculative hand...I am paying him no mind. The only hand we are even a little concerned with UTG having is AK now...I think that is as good as he could have. Good chance that all three players are sharing aces and kings, tbh.

Hero shoves, perfectly content to add $22 rake free uncontested to his stack, or see 5 cards against most hands we expect to see here.

SB: snap folds (great news)
UTG: tank calls (also great news)
LowJack: as suspected, has nothing and folds

Spoiler: SB had.....

Jacks. Queens hold with all under cards on the board

 

[grebe]

I'm so confused by this hand... I don't know that I'm ever flatting w/ QQ in a multi-way pot, especially IP. Probably not folding to a 4! from UTG. There are two hands that have us crushed, but we're racing against AK and dominating everything else. Given the pot odds with dead money, We love our odds against AK.

As I stated, I think not 3! was a huge mistake. However, the fact that we have position for the rest of the hand (after blinds act, of course) would lend more to calling than the 3!. NOT saying it's correct, just saying position works opposite. My mistake is still wrong, it's just less wronger.

 

[Legend5555]

As I stated, I think not 3! was a huge mistake. However, the fact that we have position for the rest of the hand (after blinds act, of course) would lend more to calling than the 3!. NOT saying it's correct, just saying position works opposite. My mistake is still wrong, it's just less wronger.

Just as an extreme example. If we assume that SB is always going to call when your back jam, and that his range is just AA, KK, AK, then you still have the proper overlay with the dead money with QQ to just get it in pre.

 

[grebe]

Just as an extreme example. If we assume that SB is always going to call when your back jam, and that his range is just AA, KK, AK, then you still have the proper overlay with the dead money with QQ to just get it in pre.

OK, the point I was trying to make doesnt work well with QQ specifically. That point being that in position plays better with a higher SPR, where out of position plays better with a smaller SPR. The extreme example would be all in preflop. Position from here on out is negated.

 

[Legend5555]

I was just pointing out that counter to my original argument for just calling, jamming basically can't be bad here unless SB always has AA or KK.

 

[JustinInMN]

I am aware of the spoiler's existence but have not read it and scrolled right to the bottom.

UTG: Raises $1.50 (table average sizing)
LoJack: call
Button (Hero) with QQ: ???

Slam dunk 3 bet to anything between $7-$8.50.

Hey, I agree with @Legend5555

I had 3bet the last three hands (and won all three) and not shown down my decent hands. I really feel that my 3 bet will be discounted here (which is good), but also could warrant a light 4 bet from UTG....which would be bad.

If you think the UTG will light 4 bet you, then why is that bad?

Hey, I agree with @Legend5555 again . You should be willing to go all way here if you think your image is inviting bluffs. Make the big laydown here with JJ and TT, defend the QQ.

As played, back jamming QQ here against a SB 3 bet in this configuration in online full ring is probably lighting $$$ on fire.

Hey, I now disagree with @Legend5555 . This to me screams of a SB squeeze perceiving the players flatting the raise are weak. Unless it gets 4-bet huge before getting back to me as hero. I am four betting this as played.

But really this was a pretty obvious 3 bet to me with the plan to move stacks unless it gets 4-bet and 5-bet back to you.

QQ is a good starting hand, but still vulnerable for sure. But the runouts are very favorable unless you have a guy in the hand you can only put on AA or KK.

 

[grebe]

Hey, I now disagree with @Legend5555 . This to me screams of a SB squeeze perceiving the players flatting the raise are weak. Unless it gets 4-bet huge before getting back to me as hero. I am four betting this as played.

Great news! @Legend5555 backed up that stance and ended up in line with you as well! 3 for 3!

I always consider it a win if I agree with the two of you (and @boltonguy ).

I just thought this hand was interesting enough to post because of the SB squeeze capping UTG's range. Definitely worked out well.

 

[Legend5555]

Great news! @Legend5555 backed up that stance and ended up in line with you as well! 3 for 3!

I always consider it a win if I agree with the two of you (and @boltonguy ).

I just thought this hand was interesting enough to post because of the SB squeeze capping UTG's range. Definitely worked out well.

@JustinInMN and I tend to agree more often than not.

My initial thought on the serious strength of the SB 3bet was based on a lot of hands at micro full ring. I tend to think that JJ might be at the bottom of many of those players ranges to 3bet from SB against an UTG opener, even with that many callers. But the math given all the dead money just makes it an easy jam unless he always has AA or KK.