Paulson chip material composition (1 Viewer)

[arsenelupin3]

Relative chip noob here.. Bought myself a nice set of Scandia chips re-selling Bud Jones chips in 2004-2005 that I had bought with poker winnings. Should have kept them all (had 2300, currently only have ~1300) Just a general question for the historians here..

I recently snagged three barrels of the Paulson 'suits' mold chips and they have a much more metallic twang/clank to them than my Scandia SCVs.

I also snagged a rack of Scandia $1s with the web mold about five years ago and they don't seem to be anything like either of the two. They have a weird chalky plastic feel, and just scream "counterfeit" despite not being injection-molded. Does anyone know if Paulson has messed around with the composition of their chip material over time or between molds? Is there a history I've missed?

Sorry if this has been addressed before, I did a few searches and came up blank.

 

[PinDoc]

Interesting question. I've always liked the Scandias. Just figured out they are one of the Fantasy lines. Paulson really put out some nice sets for a while. Seems like all the fantasy chips are amazing.

My guess is that it's the mold.

 

[BGinGA]

Although there are definite differences in the sound and feel characteristics produced by the three molds ( THC, Web, Card Pip/suits), the latter chips manufactured after the GPI merger use a different material fornula that no longer contains lead.

 

[BearMetal]

We must all be getting antsy in quarantine ... stirring up really old posts ... It's a very good question though. Some people like me once believed that all Paulson leaded were the same and all Paulson non-leaded were the same. That was a long time ago ... like 7 months right before I joined PCF and was subsequently corrected in all of my chip knowledge.

 

[allforcharity]

And let's remember, the different chip colours available aren't just a matter of adding pigment to a common base material. More likely is that every colour or small group of them has slightly different compositions to keep them stable and still work with their manufacturing processes.

 

[BearMetal]

See, I just figured they poured a little colored sand into some kind of mould and machine-pressed them solid. Like a "Make-Your-Own-Paulson" set for kids.

 

[BirdCage]

Glad new life was breathed into this thread. I have a couple of questions about chip material composition.

In this thread, Mint Club $5 Chips, I incorrectly assumed the chips had lead content due to their age (maybe from 1959). I suppose I should have noticed that at exactly 10 grams each, these would be borderline for leaded, as I've measured some leaded chips at over 11.5 grams. That being said, the images, see below, seem to show some kind of metal and/or debris in each chip. Is this some other metal, i.e. brass?

A more recent chip has me wondering what chips are made from today? I have live Golden Nugget $1's that barely tip the scales at 8.25 grams. While some other live chips are 9.5 to 10 grams. Is chip material something that casinos can select? Label variety can't be the only thing to explain the weight variation.

 

[allforcharity]

Chips made in the 50s likely have much different compositions than those made in the other, more recent, decades. Likely a big overhaul in the late 90s through 00s involved a lot of experimentation with new materials of different colours, densities, and other physical characteristics, because of the need to get rid of lead (maybe where the term "get the lead out" generally comes from?). Lots of variations in chip weight within one size class due to these reasons.

 

[Kakeesh]

Chips made in the 50s likely have much different compositions than those made in the other, more recent, decades. Likely a big overhaul in the late 90s through 00s involved a lot of experimentation with new materials of different colours, densities, and other physical characteristics, because of the need to get rid of lead (maybe where the term "get the lead out" generally comes from?). Lots of variations in chip weight within one size class due to these reasons.

OFF TOPIC:
Further reading on the phrase “Get the led out” in case anyone else is interested:
http://www.wordwizard.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?t=3976

Has nothing to do with poker chips

 

[allforcharity]

OFF TOPIC:
Further reading on the phrase “Get the led out” in case anyone else is interested:
http://www.wordwizard.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?t=3976

Has nothing to do with poker chips

I didn't think it had anything to do with poker chips in particular, thought it would be about manufacturing in general

 

[Kakeesh]

I didn't think it had anything to do with poker chips in particular, thought it would be about manufacturing in general

Oh I know, I just love etymology and was curious

 

[BGinGA]

I have a couple of questions about chip material composition.

the images, see below, seem to show some kind of metal and/or debris in each chip. Is this some other metal, i.e. brass?

Is chip material something that casinos can select? Label variety can't be the only thing to explain the weight variation.

Yes, the pictured Burt Co. chips contain brass flakes, intended to add weight.

Compression-molded chip material is fixed by manufacturer, so customers don't get to select material options other than by color (or in the case of CPC chips, traditional weighted colors vs modern day-glo and other unweighted colors that do not contain brass flakes).

Chips made in the 50s likely have much different compositions than those made in the other, more recent, decades.

Not really. There have really only been five different material formulas used for compression-molded chips:

• Burt Co. (and USPC) formula, largely unchanged by ASM and CPC with the exception of adding new non-weighted colors without brass flakes
• TR King formula, which contained lead (scrowns only; the lcrowns were made by Burt Co.)
• Paul-Son formula, which was altered in the late 1990s and early 2000s when lead content was replaced by zinc oxide and other materials, and is used by GPI today
• Blue Chip Co. formula,, which was very similar to the modified Paulson formula (and used by GPI today for their low-cost Blue Chip and Gemaco lines)

GPI has also produced chips using the newer Paulson formula without the costly weight additives (41mm chips weighing ~9g).

 

[BirdCage]

This info is interesting and very helpful for understanding the look and weight of various chips. Of course, "I can smell the brass through the screen" doesn't carry the same punch as "I can smell the lead..."

The one thing that still leaves me curious is the gram plus difference in currently produced, live chips. Some chips are consistently 8.5 grams, some 9 grams, some 9.5 grams and some 10 grams. And, I suppose, I wonder how some chips vary more in weight than others. For instance Lucky 21's are nearly spot on 9 grams even across denominations. Others can vary quite a bit.

 

[BGinGA]

The pigment and related binder materials used in creating different color batches of raw material sheets can definitely affect the weight, as can how those are distributed via inserts/edgespots volume and patterns in the slugs made from those sheets.

Most chips are only relatively uniform in weight by denomination within a specific set (aka, identical chips) - although due to the nature of the various manufacturing processes used to create them, no two compression-molded chips are truly identical.

 

[BirdCage]

Yes, I didn't think about volume. Using the 8.25 gram Golden Nugget as an example, that house mold design seems to require that quite a bit of material be removed as compared to others. That chip has relatively huge lettering and a large, repeating GN logo. All that negative space, on each side, must add up (or subtract up, as it were). Below is another current, live house mold chip with less negative space - it weighs 9.5 grams. Not sure that negative space makes up for the 1.25 gram difference, but certainly some of it. It's possible the Golden Nugget chip is the perfect storm of lightweight variables. Thank you.

(In the end, I wouldn't be surprised if there were recent product changes that included varying price/quality/material options. It's not uncommon for companies to diversify offerings.)

 

[BGinGA]

In the end, I wouldn't be surprised if there were recent product changes that included varying price/quality/material options. It's not uncommon for companies to diversify offerings.

With CPC, you do get a few minor options -- unweighted dayglo colors cost more, older molds that generate higher reject rates cost more per-chip to compensate, and spot patterns that require more manual labor come with a higher cost.

But no options such as you suggest with GPI. They won't even tell you how much something costs until AFTER you place the order.