PAHWN: .25/.50 PLO - Hand 2

CraigT78

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DrStrange

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Flat, then call. Hero has a reasonable hand but nothing close to a "go to war" sort of hand.

I don't like hate the 3-bet preflop by Hero. His position is middling. Hero's hand is middling. The stacks aren't that deep - Hero isn't playing a big pair, he has a reasonable speculative hand. Hero is presumably better than the field.

Let's wait until after the flop to decide to shovel money into the pot. As played, seat two has gotten to a point where he is close to pot committed with a big pair. One of the biggest mistakes hold'em players make in Omaha is overvaluing big pairs. Now Hero's preflop aggression has mostly negated this. Villain can jam most flops and have not been a total idiot. And Hero will often be forced to fold having missed the flop.

I think Hero should be thinking fit/fold post flop. He should be folding a lot more times than doing anything else. The hand values are muddy preflop but post flop we generally know who has a chance and who is already < mostly> dead.

Too bad, Hero could have seen a flop for $1.75, Now he has to pay $12.25. And we have to think at the moment that the 4-betting villain has a range advantage.

DrStrange
 

Anthony Martino

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Another hand from last nights session. I'm working on going pro, so I want to plug up some leaks.

Seat 1: Fish - Terrible poker player (82.30)
Seat 2: Very Aggressive, NLHE player - (357.05)
Seat 4: Hero (159.30)
Seat 5: Fish (109.75)
Seat 6: Decent LAG (97.75)
Seat 8: LAG (116.65)
Seat 9: Unknown (25.70)

Seat 8 has the dealer button

Seat 9 posts SB
Seat 1 posts BB

Seat 2 raises pot to $1.75


Player notes:

Seat 2 - Action junkie; Will bluff with bottom pair; loves st8 draws; Will bluff all-in
Seat 6 - Overvalues hands; plays made hands hard with no redraw; calling station
Seat 8 - will re-pot preflop when raised; will either shove or fold to aggression; rarely flats; action junkie; slows down when whiffs

Seat 9 - unknown - not a lot of history with this player
Seat 1 - terrible, don't think she's ever had a winning session
Seat 5 - new fish to the game, no notes yet, but plays nearly every hand, seems pretty bad

Action to hero with :8s::tc::as::9c:

Haven't ready anything but the first post so far so here's my thought process:

1. I like to keep pots small since PLO your hand is so heavily dependent upon the flop changing things. So I'm in the call camp here.

2. I'm guessing that Seat 8 who will re-pot preflop when raised is likely to do that this hand. If so, I'd be ready to re-re-pot his ass. Our hand should play well against one opponent with dead money in the pot. But depending on the raise, pot and stack sizes it may still make sense to just call and see a flop, depending on how deep we'll be.
 

Anthony Martino

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Action was to hero.

Hero decides to pot it against this particular player in the hopes to thin the field.

Hero bets $3.

Seat 5 fish - calls
Seats 6, 8, fold

Seat 1 fish (rhymes with Wagon) calls

Seat 2 pots to $12.25

Action to hero?

Our hand plays well multi-way and we're in a pot with two fish and an aggressive NLHE player that is spewey. I call to keep the fish in. In theory, it should be harder for the over-aggressive hold em player to bluff facing multiple opponents rather than just you. We hold a positional advantage over two of our three opponents and the one that has position on us is a fish, so we aren't too worried about his position.
 

CraigT78

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Hero calls the $12.50

Seat 5 calls
Seat 1 fold.

**FLOP**
:7s::kh::4s:

Seat 2 bets $48.85

Action to hero with :8s::tc::as::9c:
 

JustinInMN

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So nut-flush draw and a bunch of backdoor straight draws?

Pot odds are 2:1, and maybe 3:1 if you get overcalled here?

I know it's nut flush draw, but it isn't much else and the price is pretty steep. Even if hero had flopped a gutshot with the nut flush draw I would feel better about the price. If hero shoves here, will lose the runout more than 2/3 the time I think if villain has Ks-up or better. Villain probably doesn't have a combo draw since hero holds the nut spades. If hero calls and misses the turn, will probably be putting his last $100 in on the turn. If hero shoves, Hold'em players just don't fold enough in PLO for semi-bluffing strategies to be worth is. Hero shove would make much more sense if hero was holding at least a combo draw, even if not a wrap.

Is this a fold? *ducks*

I think this is a fold.
 

JustinInMN

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If I were to build a case to call, 8 cards give hero the nut flush without pairing the K. If a J, T, 9, 8, or 6 comes on the turn (13 cards not spades and not in hand) that gives hero at least an eight out straight draw, and 5 or Q (6 cards not spades) give hero a gunshot straight draw, so 60% of the possible turn cards (27 of 45) are "helpful" to some degree. But most of those are only helpful to making good draws, but still needing one more card. I still think the 2:1 pot price is too steep to pay unless hero is pretty sure the player yet to act behind is coming in and not raising.
 
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upNdown

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I would have liked to see a turn card, but the pot is too big. I'm folding here unless I'm fairly drunk.
 

Anthony Martino

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Hero calls the $12.50

Seat 5 calls
Seat 1 fold.

**FLOP**
:7s::kh::4s:

Seat 2 bets $48.85

Action to hero with :8s::tc::as::9c:


Well, I don't think we have any fold equity here if we shove given pot and stack sizes. So it becomes a "does Hero want to gamble" spot. Worst case is Villain having a set here as he's a 2:1 favorite over our draw generally. Even if he's got something like AKQJ we're essentially coin-flipping, he's actually a slight favorite.

Now granted, we're giving him a LOT of credit for a stronger hand than he may have. But generally speaking I'm expecting we are behind here. IF we continue, we benefit from having the other two players stacks get into the pot as well, as it gives us the necessary odds and the right pot size should we get there with our hand.

IF we call, do we expect one or both fish to come along as well? I assume if we raise here they fold?

I guess I've gotta do the Doug Polk here and say sometimes a fold is ok, sometimes a call is ok and sometimes a raise is ok. If you think Seat 2 might fold if we pot all-in here then have at it, we still have equity if called. If you think the fish will come along if we just smooth-call then do that and try to keep them in. Or if you just feel like gambling then you can shove too. Whatever the case, IF we continue with this hand, we want to realize our equity so we're essentially planning to go to the river (unless we smooth call to keep the fish in the pot and the board pairs the turn). So we're planning to get it in or call it off on the turn unless it pairs if we decide to just call.
 

Kain8

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If you had $100 left, I'd rip it in if you decide to play. The stacks are just awkward enough that it may be too much to try and re-pot.
 

Rhodeman77

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Fold.

This flop really shows why not raising the hand preflop was the best play. If Hero had limp/called the flop bet would be much smaller now and Hero would have much better implied odds to call even a pot sized flop bet right now.
 

CraigT78

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Fold.

This flop really shows why not raising the hand preflop was the best play. If Hero had limp/called the flop bet would be much smaller now and Hero would have much better implied odds to call even a pot sized flop bet right now.
Fold? Against Viking?
 

Rhodeman77

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Fold? Against Viking?

Even blind squirrels find a nut occasionally! If you are sure hitting an Ace on the turn gives you the best hand as well I can stretch to make the call.

you aren’t getting the right price to call and will have to call of the rest of your stack on the turn.

Especially against Viking that will give his money away in many other spots where hero has him in bad shape, not drawing himself.
 

CraigT78

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Even blind squirrels find a nut occasionally! If you are sure hitting an Ace on the turn gives you the best hand as well I can stretch to make the call.

you aren’t getting the right price to call and will have to call of the rest of your stack on the turn.

Especially against Viking that will give his money away in many other spots where hero has him in bad shape, not drawing himself.
Interesting. I will hint, that's not what I did here :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 
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