PAHWM: Three handed suited ace in the small blind (1 Viewer)

[JMC9389]

Had a few interesting spots in play this weekend. This one we were three handed, blinds 300/600 in a 5 handed turbo tournament.

Hero is in the SB with about 20,000 effective.

Villain 1 is on the button with about 8000 effective, passive, loose player pre and post flop. Can get sticky post flop.

Villain 2 is in the big blind with about 12000 effective. TAG player that can get a little out of line trying to steal dead money in pots postflop.

A new hand starts, and button flats the 600.

Hero looks down at in the small blind.

Action?

 

[LowerBama1714]

Wait for a better hand to smoke your TAG buddy when he gets out of line…or raise 2.5BB.

 

[Coyote]

Just don't play tournaments.
In a cash game, that would be either a call or a minimum raise

 

[JMC9389]

Moving on...

Hero opts to raise to 1800 with to get a sense of where they're at against the BB and the limper on the button.

BB completes the 1800 and button calls.

Pot is 5400.

Flop comes out

Action?

 

[Senzrock]

Moving on...

Hero opts to raise to 1800 with to get a sense of where they're at against the BB and the limper on the button.

BB completes the 1800 and button calls.

Pot is 5400.

Flop comes out

Action?

So I know this might sound aggressive but in this type of structure I'm actually shoving the A5s from the sb to a button limp. It's a great hand to do that with and you are rarely getting called. Even in a worst case scenario where the BB wakes up, you have decent equity. You are only 20bbs deep effective total so a shove can't be bad.

On the flop I I would be betting small with entire range so I'm betting about 1500 here.

 

[krafticus]

I’m leading out. Your raising range doesn’t have many 5’s, and this should be a good flop for any over pair. I’m leading small, hoping to set up a call and potentially a turn shove. Even better if they raise on the flop.

Of course, if they have nothing, they may fold to any bet.

 

[KHarp1]

My thinking is throw out about 2k. Does this look like I'm trying to grab a pot on a missed board?

 

[JMC9389]

Moving on....

The Flop comes out

This board should be good for the preflop raiser most of the time. Suited connectors can be within range for either villain, but ultimately, hero smashes this flop but doesn't want to scare hands that can float with two overs and draws away.

With this, hero leads out betting 1800 into a pot of 5400.

Both villains smooth call.

Turn is the

Action?

 

[grebe]

Had a few interesting spots in play this weekend. This one we were three handed, blinds 300/600 in a 5 handed turbo tournament.

Hero is in the SB with about 20,000 effective.

Villain 1 is on the button with about 8000 effective, passive, loose player pre and post flop. Can get sticky post flop.

Villain 2 is in the big blind with about 12000 effective. TAG player that can get a little out of line trying to steal dead money in pots postflop.

A new hand starts, and button flats the 600.

Hero looks down at in the small blind.

Action?

Raise 3X-3.5X. 2X would be my standard here in position, so we can go a little bigger being out of position and with the button flat. We are perfectly happy with two folds here. I would also be ok calling an all in from either player, but would prefer only one or the other. If we get a shove then a call, we can lay it down.

 

[grebe]

Moving on...

Hero opts to raise to 1800 with to get a sense of where they're at against the BB and the limper on the button.

BB completes the 1800 and button calls.

Pot is 5400.

Flop comes out

Action?

Gin. We can check our range here though against two opponents. In this case we are trapping, but this flop does not fit our raising range. If we can get away with betting and getting action, by all means lead out.

 

[grebe]

Moving on....

The Flop comes out

This board should be good for the preflop raiser most of the time. Suited connectors can be within range for either villain, but ultimately, hero smashes this flop but doesn't want to scare hands that can float with two overs and draws away.

With this, hero leads out betting 1800 into a pot of 5400.

Both villains smooth call.

Turn is the

Action?.

All in. We can expect calls now from any big heart, any 8, the other random 5, and anybody that binked the flush. If we are beat, we have outs. Well, except 88, then we are cooked. That's just a single hand though. Our value range is high here.

We want a call.

 

[arch3r]

All in. We can expect calls now from any big heart, any 8, the other random 5, and anybody that binked the flush. If we are beat, we have outs. Well, except 88, then we are cooked. That's just a single hand though. Our value range is high here.

We want a call.

What he said.

 

[JMC9389]

As a thought exercise, what hands call a turn shove that don't have hero absolutely crushed? Even three handed, it's worrisome that both the BB and button called the flop c-bet. On the flop, hands with an 8 call. Sandbagged overpairs call. Other hands with 5's call. Straight and flush draws call. The ranges for the villains here are still relatively uncapped.

With the preflop action, I can pretty much rule out overpairs as both players I think would have three bet or shoved pre with 9's or better. I see pairs 8's or lower just calling trying to set mine. I can pretty much rule out two suited overcards as those would have been three bet too.

In this situation, the most likely hands the villains have here are straight and flush draws (Ax, Kx, maybe even Qx of hearts). A ten on this turn doesn't really change much in terms of straight draws getting there. Hands like J9, Q9, Q 10, J10 pick up equity, and certainly the front door flush gets there. Certainly hero can lead out here on the turn to get some information, but hero shoving sets him up for a cooler type situation where they're either still likely ahead or crushed.

 

[Frogzilla]

What’s the payout %s?

 

[JMC9389]

What’s the payout %s?

Progressive bounty format. Hero still has their $20 bounty, button and BB each have a $30 bounty and $10 cash

 

[Frogzilla]

Progressive bounty format. Hero still has their $20 bounty, button and BB each have a $30 bounty and $10 cash

No prize pool other than bounty?

 

[JMC9389]

No prize pool other than bounty?

Nope, straight cash for bounties

 

[Senzrock]

As a thought exercise, what hands call a turn shove that don't have hero absolutely crushed? Even three handed, it's worrisome that both the BB and button called the flop c-bet. On the flop, hands with an 8 call. Sandbagged overpairs call. Other hands with 5's call. Straight and flush draws call. The ranges for the villains here are still relatively uncapped.

With the preflop action, I can pretty much rule out overpairs as both players I think would have three bet or shoved pre with 9's or better. I see pairs 8's or lower just calling trying to set mine. I can pretty much rule out two suited overcards as those would have been three bet too.

In this situation, the most likely hands the villains have here are straight and flush draws (Ax, Kx, maybe even Qx of hearts). A ten on this turn doesn't really change much in terms of straight draws getting there. Hands like J9, Q9, Q 10, J10 pick up equity, and certainly the front door flush gets there. Certainly hero can lead out here on the turn to get some information, but hero shoving sets him up for a cooler type situation where they're either still likely ahead or crushed.

The issue is the SPR is very low (seems less than 1-to-1 correct?) so we aren’t folding here and we don’t love checking since a 4th heart, 8, 9, 4 are all bad cards for us. I like a shove where hopefully we get called by a hand like 8x with a big heart or 65. Any 8x without a heart is just going to fold anyway and the straight draws similarly. The pot is a decent size to take down, and we can’t get too worried about running into monsters (+we have redraws). It’s not an ideal situation by any means but that’s what we kind when we raise to 3bbs out of position off of a 20bb stack. It just sets us up for a series of difficult decisions (which is why I kind of like a shove pre to pick up the dead $).

 

[JMC9389]

The issue is the SPR is very low (seems less than 1-to-1 correct?) so we aren’t folding here and we don’t love checking since a 4th heart, 8, 9, 4 are all bad cards for us. I like a shove where hopefully we get called by a hand like 8x with a big heart or 65. Any 8x without a heart is just going to fold anyway and the straight draws similarly. The pot is a decent size to take down, and we can’t get too worried about running into monsters (+we have redraws). It’s not an ideal situation by any means but that’s what we kind when we raise to 3bbs out of position off of a 20bb stack. It just sets us up for a series of difficult decisions (which is why I kind of like a shove pre to pick up the dead $).

SPR for the hero on the turn is a little over 1.5:1. Hero had about 16500ish left for a pot of 10400.

 

[Senzrock]

SPR for the hero on the turn is a little over 1.5:1. Hero had about 16500ish left for a pot of 10400.

But we aren’t looking at hero’s stack, we are looking at the biggest covering stack right? By my count the largest stack of the two villains is much smaller?

 

[JMC9389]

But we aren’t looking at hero’s stack, we are looking at the biggest covering stack right? By my count the largest stack of the two villains is much smaller?

Correct. BB has about 8200 left and button even less. Maybe 4800ish?

 

[Senzrock]

Correct. BB has about 8200 left and button even less. Maybe 4800ish?

Yeah so we are looking at .8 to 1 SPR - in which case you can’t really go wrong with a shove imo because you don’t want to check fold here and you would love some value if possible.

 

[JMC9389]

Yeah so we are looking at .8 to 1 SPR - in which case you can’t really go wrong with a shove imo because you don’t want to check fold here and you would love some value if possible.

Hero's thoughts are that BB is certainly capable of spewing this turn with hands as bad as ace high to try and buy it. Hero is a little more worried about button's hand, but they should be pretty much shoving with just about anything on the turn.

 

[JustinInMN]

Had a few interesting spots in play this weekend. This one we were three handed, blinds 300/600 in a 5 handed turbo tournament.

Hero is in the SB with about 20,000 effective.

Villain 1 is on the button with about 8000 effective, passive, loose player pre and post flop. Can get sticky post flop.

Villain 2 is in the big blind with about 12000 effective. TAG player that can get a little out of line trying to steal dead money in pots postflop.

A new hand starts, and button flats the 600.

Hero looks down at in the small blind.

Action?

I think this is a certain raise here. 1) You almost surely have button beat. Even a passive button is going to raise better aces at this stage 2) You give yourself a chance to fold out the tricky player on your left right now. 3) You have everyone covered which will give you leverage later in the hand.

Moving on...

Hero opts to raise to 1800 with to get a sense of where they're at against the BB and the limper on the button.

BB completes the 1800 and button calls.

Pot is 5400.

Flop comes out

Action?

I think you are betting 100% of your range here, you very much flopped top of your range here, but you are also going to want to bet a lot of air here as well to leverage opposition with weak holdings, so betting your strength protects that.

Moving on....

The Flop comes out

This board should be good for the preflop raiser most of the time. Suited connectors can be within range for either villain, but ultimately, hero smashes this flop but doesn't want to scare hands that can float with two overs and draws away.

With this, hero leads out betting 1800 into a pot of 5400.

Both villains smooth call.

Turn is the

Action?

I think it's time to shove. Exactly 88 is the only hand that has you screwed. Even against a flush you would have 10 outs here to a full house or better. I think you are going to call it off here if shoved on for this reason, betting prevents anyone from taking a free pull with a single heart.

As a thought exercise, what hands call a turn shove that don't have hero absolutely crushed? Even three handed, it's worrisome that both the BB and button called the flop c-bet. On the flop, hands with an 8 call. Sandbagged overpairs call. Other hands with 5's call. Straight and flush draws call. The ranges for the villains here are still relatively uncapped

I think the shove is so shallow any big heart has to call. Card removal caps villains ranges to some extent. They can't have quads. The only full houses they can have are either 88, TT or require the case 5. Villains can have all the flushes granted, but we have a decent redraw against that and are not folding to a shove if laid 3-1 on that.

I think if someone floated with a Tx they have to call here. I think an 8x might even be stubborn enough to call here. And again, it's because the price of the shove is so shallow. V1 only has to call about 4400 for a chance to win 15K, V2 has to call about 8400 for a chance to win roughly 19K.

The calling ranges are wide, and also, just picking up this pot now isn't a horrible result either.

 

[Frogzilla]

PKO bounty only almost certain preflop is a trivial all-in. It’s a reasonable shove in a normal tourney with ICM, much more so here.

As played with flop SPR ~2 (bb eff stack) the sizing I prefer is 1/2 pot to set up turn jams, A5 is a bet for value.

As played turn SPR ~0.9 3 handed with PKO jam is only size and you will want to be jamming with a lot of hands. Can comfortably bet A5 for value. The $30 PKO is worth like 9000ish chips (treat it like dead money pre) so you are getting nearly direct odds to boat mine even if BB shows you a flush. And you are printing if it’s BU with the flush.

 

[JMC9389]

Forgot about this yesterday, let's wrap this up.

Some good discussion after this street. The third heart should be a better card for the callers to hero's aggressive action to this point. In the moment, this card froze hero up as flushes certainly get there. Hero doesn't have removal to the flush as they hold two clubs here. That said, if BB or button had the flush, so be it, hero was ready to check raise all in to any bet to collect some bounty money. Worst case, both call and have flushes, but it is really unlikely. Hero is either ahead or loses only half their stack, in which case hero can easily double up again and be right back in it.

In an attempt to get some information, hero checks, electing to let BB blast off to try and steal the pot only to put him in a miserable position to an all in.

Amazingly, both BB and button check.

River is . Pot remains 10800.

Action?

 

[JustinInMN]

Worst case, both call and have flushes, but it is really unlikely. Hero is either ahead or loses only half their stack, in which case hero can easily double up again and be right back in it.

Actually I don't think both players having flushes is any worse than one player having a flush, and it would ensure all off your full house-plus outs are clean.

Amazingly, both BB and button check.

River is . Pot remains 10800.

Wow that is amazing. And you have the right river and less than a pot size bet behind.

So I think we want to play for stacks here, so the question is do we check to induce or do we bet our own hand?

I think the shove is better and hope either villain has enough to play cop. You lose to 88, TT, AA. (And I have severe doubts about TT and AA given the preflop action.) That's not going to come up enough, and I think the Ace helps enough logical mid-value on the turn where you may get looked up here for less than a pot sized bet. (Even if it would break villain.) Hero can surely be called by A8 and AT now, and probably even the dry at this point.

Some of those combos might bet for us too, so that's the argument to check and see, but I think the positives from betting our own hand are greater.

 

[krafticus]

 

[Marc Hedrick]

Pre, though

 

[JMC9389]

Realized that I never concluded this.

This was a snap fist bump/high five jam. Both villains folded.

The better conversation points here I think were what to do when the turn brought in the front door flush.

Is anyone else doing anything else but jamming here? Maybe check to induce BB or the button to bluff?