PAHWM - QJs on the button (1 Viewer)

Eriks

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Playing in this SEK 5/10 game (about $0.6/1.2) for the first time. The stakes are a bit out of my comfort zone as my normal game is SEK 2/4. Game is pretty loose with plenty of straddles, some double straddles and the occasional triple straddle. Most sit on between 3-8k stacks. I came late to the game and bought in for 2000 and have lost a few small pots and am down to about 1800.

Some reads:
MP - ~5k stack - seems tight and kinda passive pre. Haven’t seen him limp big hands.
BTN: Hero - 1800 - Have opened a few hands and cbet them but been forced to give up.
SB - ~ 3k - seems loose and aggressive, likes to splash around, usually straddles. Have seem him 3-bet a few times. Losing 5k+ at this point but I don’t think he cares too much about the money.
BB - 6k+ - Seems to play pretty solid from what I’ve seen.
UTG/straddle - 3,5k - Opens a fair amount of pots himself and calls a lot of opens. probably plays too many hands. Haven’t seen him 3-bet.

8-handed.
UTG staddles to 20.
MP limps
Hero looks down at
:qd::jd: and limps? Opens? If so, how much?
 
I would raise to whatever is standard for this table, maybe 60-80?

I'm calling a 3b from the SB with position and a hand that plays well there against SB, then taking a call-down line with a TP-type hand. In a 3b pot against SB, I'm looking to play for stacks with most hands better than TP, and I'm playing big flopped draws aggressively.

Not much difference if UTG comes along, but a little more caution with one-pair hands.

Proceed much more cautiously if MP calls the 3b, and if he limp-raises, I'm probably getting out of the way.
 
I would raise to whatever is standard for this table, maybe 60-80?

I'm calling a 3b from the SB with position and a hand that plays well there against SB, then taking a call-down line with a TP-type hand. In a 3b pot against SB, I'm looking to play for stacks with most hands better than TP, and I'm playing big flopped draws aggressively.

Not much difference if UTG comes along, but a little more caution with one-pair hands.

Proceed much more cautiously if MP calls the 3b, and if he limp-raises, I'm probably getting out of the way.

This dude fucks.
 
I can go with a limp or a raise. The more easily the table rolls over to a c-bet the more I like a raise. Maybe hero has a fancy play opportunity? The raise might be blocking to keep SB and perhaps the straddler in line.

Hero needs to be mindful that pot commitment isn't that far away, so lets be comfortable with the risk of playing TP/GK. If this is a concern for hero I think the limp might be the way to go.

Knowing nothing, I like a raise to 80.
 
@Schmendr1ck plan is perfectly reasonable, but I'd at least think about just calling. After all, QJs has draw potential as suited connectors in addition to some high card value. Straddlers almost always take multiple callers as a dare to raise, but you'd get to see how MP responds. And, if it just calls around, that's not terrible for QJs in position.
 
@Schmendr1ck plan is perfectly reasonable, but I'd at least think about just calling. After all, QJs has draw potential as suited connectors in addition to some high card value. Straddlers almost always take multiple callers as a dare to raise, but you'd get to see how MP responds. And, if it just calls around, that's not terrible for QJs in position.
In my experience unraised straddlers often try to take down all the dead money, so you're often going to be facing something like a bet of 100-150 to continue, I'd much rather take the initiative and raise and reevaluate if the straddle 3bets.
 
In my experience unraised straddlers often try to take down all the dead money, so you're often going to be facing something like a bet of 100-150 to continue, I'd much rather take the initiative and raise and reevaluate if the straddle 3bets.

Points are valid, and a raise to 80 might well be a cheaper way to see the flop (which we'd really like to do), but we'd need to know about UTG to be real certain of that. I don't know what the chances are of the straddler either checking or raising merely to about what we would have anyway, but it's not zero. And the latter possibility (much more likely of the two is my guess) has the advantage of seeing what MP would do about it.

If we raise to 80 and he 3b relatively small, we might have to call. Could be "forced" to pay a total of 200 after the original raise to 80 goes in.

You've certainly got a good argument for raising, just not convinced it's a slam dunk. If our raise would have been to 80, but the straddler when limped to raises to 100, I might like that better.
 
Thanks guys! My thinking at the time:

Like @kmccormick100 I don’t like to limp. I did think about it here though since we’re only 90 bbs deep effectively and I wouldn’t like to be facing a big 3-bet that I’m potentially unable to call.

I like a raise to 80 as most have suggested, but I did go with 100. I figured since 5+10+20+20 is in there already I need to pump it up a bit more to not give too good of a price to callers. In hindsight perhaps it’s too large, I’m not sure.

Anyway, SB flats the 100, BB folds and UTG makes it 300 to go. MP limper folds and it’s back to us. 200 to call and loosey goosey SB still to act behind us. What now?
 
Thanks guys! My thinking at the time:

Like @kmccormick100 I don’t like to limp. I did think about it here though since we’re only 90 bbs deep effectively and I wouldn’t like to be facing a big 3-bet that I’m potentially unable to call.

I like a raise to 80 as most have suggested, but I did go with 100. I figured since 5+10+20+20 is in there already I need to pump it up a bit more to not give too good of a price to callers. In hindsight perhaps it’s too large, I’m not sure.

Anyway, SB flats the 100, BB folds and UTG makes it 300 to go. MP limper folds and it’s back to us. 200 to call and loosey goosey SB still to act behind us. What now?

1ed4b9d2d719571364a79e69147f45ff.gif
 
Thanks guys! My thinking at the time:

Like @kmccormick100 I don’t like to limp. I did think about it here though since we’re only 90 bbs deep effectively and I wouldn’t like to be facing a big 3-bet that I’m potentially unable to call.

I like a raise to 80 as most have suggested, but I did go with 100. I figured since 5+10+20+20 is in there already I need to pump it up a bit more to not give too good of a price to callers. In hindsight perhaps it’s too large, I’m not sure.

Anyway, SB flats the 100, BB folds and UTG makes it 300 to go. MP limper folds and it’s back to us. 200 to call and loosey goosey SB still to act behind us. What now?
100 is a little big, but OK - it just has the effect of bloating the pot and any 3 bets to follow.

I think calling or folding are both OK, but I lean towards calling at decent depth and with ~ 550 in there and 200 to call you’re already at like 2.8:1 on your money. I like taking a flop in position with a good suited Broadway, but navigating post flop can be tricky.
 
100 is a little big, but OK - it just has the effect of bloating the pot and any 3 bets to follow.

I think calling or folding are both OK, but I lean towards calling at decent depth and with ~ 550 in there and 200 to call you’re already at like 2.8:1 on your money. I like taking a flop in position with a good suited Broadway, but navigating post flop can be tricky.
I'm pretty much in the same boat.

On one hand, I hate putting 1/6 of my stack into a bloated pot with suited connectors, even big ones like QJs. The low variance route is to kiss the 100 goodbye, fold, and top off.

On the other hand, loosey-goosey SB is almost certainly going to call if you do, so I think you're looking at 200 to win 730 (3.65 to 1), plus decent implied odds for a double-up or better if you smash it.

If you call, your SPR means you pretty much have to get it in with TP+ or a big draw. If you miss, check/fold.
 
For sure open. 80-100.

I think you just give up to the 3 bet sadly. Just not really deep enough and going 3 ways actually would not be great because spr would be very low.
 
You should have tried to see a flop more cheaply. QJ, even suited, even on the button, is not made for bravados.
Now you 'll have to see the flop at a higher price.
If you hit it hard, hit hard; if you miss it, run. Maniacs get good cards too.
 
I don't know if this is a very interesting hand, I posted it mostly because when playing, all of the pre-flop decisions felt kinda iffy but at the same time like I didn’t have much choice. I sorta wanted to fold to the 3-bet but felt I got too good of a price, especially with SB behind likely to come along.

I called the 300 and so did the SB.

Flop (930) effective stacks 1500

:qc::jh::8c:

SB now leads for 700, UTG seems uneasy (don’t know if genuine), takes a few moments and makes an ”ok, I guess I call” kinda call.

At this point it's not really interesting and it can't be much of decision, right? Obviously, I would like to have been deeper as I can't put any pressure on potential draws with shoving my short stack. Just gotta pray we're not coolered or getting outdrawn?
 
I have to agree with @Coyote
QJs in your situation I think is a hand that loves to see the flop cheaply. No reason to risk facing a 3-bet or 4-bet and having to consider between folding or calling.

post-flop
I think your premium top-two is definitely looking to shove here, as it clearly is the only point left in this hand where you're ever going to get anyone to fold.
Call and fold to a club on a turn? I don't think so
Fold top-two? Don't think so either
 
Just get the money in. You are blocking 2 of the most concerning hands. If either of them somehow have 88 or 9T, then oh well. But they really shouldn't have those that often. So you are likely ahead the vast majority of the time, and have 4 outs if somehow beaten. And still have those 4 outs if they hit a draw. You just aren't deep enough to ever consider anything other than getting it in at this point.
 
Yepp, I agree with you all that once I call pre and get blessed with that flop, it’s jam time even though I most likely will have to show down a winner. I was mostly concerned with pre-flop and while I don’t like limping, it may be a viable option. Raising is probably best though, perhaps 80 would have been preferable but UTG still made a relatively small 3-bet that I think I have to call.

Anyway, I shoved, SB shoved his remaining chips on top and UTG called.

SB says he has a club draw and UTG shows AA. Turn is the magic :js: and the river bricks. Yay!
 
Wow, UTG needed to raise way more than just 3x your initial raise preflop. At least 4 - 5x since they're out of position against the initial raiser.

Their loss though!
 
Wow, UTG needed to raise way more than just 3x your initial raise preflop. At least 4 - 5x since they're out of position against the initial raiser.

Their loss though!
I agree. At what point do I fold to the 3-bet? If he makes it 400? 500?
 
I agree. At what point do I fold to the 3-bet? If he makes it 400? 500?
The thing is, what % of your stack are you willing to put in pre? Because at a certain point you can't really fold any decent flop, and you are going to fold pretty much all others. So how often you flopping well enough to get it in, what is your equity when you do? And how often you just folding the flop? You can't even be super thrilled just flopping the non-nut flush draw.
 
The thing is, what % of your stack are you willing to put in pre? Because at a certain point you can't really fold any decent flop, and you are going to fold pretty much all others. So how often you flopping well enough to get it in, what is your equity when you do? And how often you just folding the flop? You can't even be super thrilled just flopping the non-nut flush draw.
I'd say he was already there after calling 300, he went to the flop with SPR of 1.67.

If he hits TP or better or a strong draw, he's committed for the rest of his stack.
 
I'd say he was already there after calling 300, he went to the flop with SPR of 1.67.

If he hits TP or better or a strong draw, he's committed for the rest of his stack.
I agree, I wanted to fold pre as well. I'm just trying to get him to think about the questions he should be asking himself in these situations.
 
I agree, I wanted to fold pre as well. I'm just trying to get him to think about the questions he should be asking himself in these situations.
You’re right, the flop sure made it easy for me and it will mostly not be the case. Let’s say the flop is
:qc::th::8c:
Should I still be looking to get it in with this SPR?
 
You’re right, the flop sure made it easy for me and it will mostly not be the case. Let’s say the flop is
:qc::th::8c:
Should I still be looking to get it in with this SPR?
I think so. Generally, SPR less than two is going to commit you with a TP-type hand.

If you're not planning to get it in when you flop top pair, then you shouldn't be calling the 300.
 

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