PAHWM NLH 3-handed homegame

Eriks

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Only 3-handed this time. We play 1/2 swedish krona ($0.1/0.2). Hand in question takes place near the end of the night.

Hero - BTN ~1100
Villain - SB covers
BB - 600

Hero is up 300 from his initial 500 buy-in and subsequent 300 top off. Villain has been getting smashed with the deck tonight and everything has gotten his way. He is generally pretty tight with his 3-bets but can get out of line (3-bet and showed 97s from the sb earlier). He will bet his big but vulnerable hands quite big. He will sometimes make bad checks or flatcalls (where he should have raised) because of scare cards.
BB is the big loser tonight and is playing too many hands to try and make up for his losses.

edit: one significant hand earlier: hero c/r K25 flop with A3, bet 7o turn and bet big on T river (no flushes), got him (villain) to fold and showed the bluff.

Hero raises:jh::9h: to 6
SB 3-bets to 14 (He will often 3-bet small, doesn’t mean too much)
BB folds

I don’t think anything but call makes sense for hero so I’ll skip right to the flop:

:js::6c::7d:

SB bets 25
Hero?
 
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ChaosRock

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Agree with the flat pre playing 3-handed poker.

Almost a pot size bet, huh?

Can't fold top pair here, I don't think. Never folding, never raising, so call for me.
 

ChaosRock

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Yepp, he tends to bet on the bigger side

Got it! Not reading anything on the large bet sizing then.

It is interesting his 3-betting sizing pre was very, very small though. At least to me.
 

Rhodeman77

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Call. I don’t want to blow him off his Ace high bluffs. And I don’t want to pile more money with just top pair weak kicker if we are against a big PP or out kicked. We have some back door straight equity as well. Let’s see if we pick up some extra outs cheap.
 

Eriks

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I can add that I believe his 3-betting range is mainly big hands such as JJ+, AQ+ and bluff type hands. He’s not really one to 3-bet e.g. AJ for value even though he should. I have never seen him 3-bet pocket pairs below 99
 

Legend5555

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Standard pre.

Standard call on flop even to that size. Raising doesn't get him off better and he can't call much worse except maybe TT or possibly 88 if he even 3 bets those pre.

We are likely good with calling most non-K non-A turns as well. Though we can't really go 3 streets without improving or villain slowing down.
 

Eriks

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I feel preflop and flop are very standard. Probably why there aren’t many chiming in. Hero calls the flop bet and we’ll move along to the turn.

:js: :6c: :7d::5s: Pot 80

Villain rather quickly bets 60
Hero?
 

Rhodeman77

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When people bet very quickly online that is usually a tell of weakness. They want you to think they are strong betting so fast. But the board texture changed a lot. 89 got there. Most people with a good hand are going to want to evaluate what that card means to the board before betting.

I call and let him bluff again on the river.
 

Legend5555

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Not only did a bad card not come, we actually picked up equity with a gutshot. Pretty standard call again.

Villain could be betting worse like TT or he could also have picked up a spade draw. We could also be beat sometimes too by overpairs or AJ/KJ. But again, top pair, position, gutshot. Call.
 

ChaosRock

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Agree with Adam and Legend. Call. It is a tough three barrel call on the river depending on the card on a 3-bet pot as there's quite a few combos that beat us. As the streets progress, Villain has less bluff combos. At this point though, I don't think Hero can beat anything that Villain is betting for value. Even TT as motioned above is checking turn a certain percentage of the time.

If river is a blank, I'm leaning towards folding to a large-ish bet as we have a bluff catcher only most certainly.
 

Legend5555

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Not that I think this would ever work at these stakes, and I think players would need to be a little deeper, but this is actually a spot where Hero has a pretty big range advantage and could consider turning his hand into a bluff here on the turn. Hero likely has 7-9 outs to beat a one pair value hand. And it's hard for villain to have a really strong hand other than JJ, which we block. Hero can pretty easily rep any set and 89s. Hell, hero even has a 9 to help block villain from having the super unlikely 89.

But like I said, this is definitely fancy play and really would only work against a thinking player. But given hero's exact hand and how villain is playing, it's a consideration.
 

Legend5555

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Not that I think this would ever work at these stakes, and I think players would need to be a little deeper, but this is actually a spot where Hero has a pretty big range advantage and could consider turning his hand into a bluff here on the turn. Hero likely has 7-9 outs to beat a one pair value hand. And it's hard for villain to have a really strong hand other than JJ, which we block. Hero can pretty easily rep any set and 89s. Hell, hero even has a 9 to help block villain from having the super unlikely 89.

But like I said, this is definitely fancy play and really would only work against a thinking player. But given hero's exact hand and how villain is playing, it's a consideration.
After a bit more thought, it might be a stretch that Hero could have 89s here facing a pot sized flop bet. But maybe. So maybe if the turn was a 4 it would be better. Hero could more credibly rep 78s facing a pot sized flop bet.

Sorry, getting into the weeds here a bit. Can't help myself.
 

Eriks

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Not that I think this would ever work at these stakes, and I think players would need to be a little deeper, but this is actually a spot where Hero has a pretty big range advantage and could consider turning his hand into a bluff here on the turn. Hero likely has 7-9 outs to beat a one pair value hand. And it's hard for villain to have a really strong hand other than JJ, which we block. Hero can pretty easily rep any set and 89s. Hell, hero even has a 9 to help block villain from having the super unlikely 89.

But like I said, this is definitely fancy play and really would only work against a thinking player. But given hero's exact hand and how villain is playing, it's a consideration.

I kinda like this idea. If there’s anyone that frequents my game that this could work on, it’s this guy. He is definitely capable of laying down overpairs. Much more of a hero folder than a hero caller. I did show him that big bluff earlier so I don’t know if he’ll give me credit for a hand this time.
 

Rhodeman77

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If Villain had checked the turn I would definitely bet here. I can also see the merit in raising against a thinking player in a deep game.

All of the middling cards are beating 1 pair hands. 67 flopped 2 pair. 56 is now 2 pair, 89, is a straight. Plus the possibility of flopped sets. Against a player that can make folds a raise does make sense if we think we are behind. The fast bet makes me think we are against a hand like AK-AQ more than an over pair. So letting him triple barrel nets Hero more money than raising since he will fold all of his bluffs now.
 

Eriks

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At the time I didn’t think about raising the turn as a bluff like @Legend5555 pointed out but it’s definitely worth considering in this spot vs. this player.

Like @Rhodeman77 I read his quick bet like possible weakness since that turn should give him at least some paus regardless of whether he holds AA or 98s. With that said he’s generally not one to take a lot of time with his decisions. But this was still on the quick side.

Anyway, hero calls and we see a river:

:js: :6c::7d::5s::4c: Pot 220

Immidiately I can see villain looking at the pot silently calculating before putting out a bet of 175.
Hero?
 

Rhodeman77

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How much is left behind? This feels like a very good spot to raise. How many 8’s can he have with the line he took?

I like raise or fold.
 

Eriks

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How much is left behind? This feels like a very good spot to raise. How many 8’s can he have with the line he took?

I like raise or fold.

Quite a lot, about 825 effective. I don’t think he can have many 8s. Only 98s makes complete sense. I don’t think he 3-bets A8s and probably wouldn’t bet turn with 87/86/T8.

So you’re raising in case he’s bluffing with QQ+?
 

Rhodeman77

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Quite a lot, about 825 effective. I don’t think he can have many 8s. Only 98s makes complete sense. I don’t think he 3-bets A8s and probably wouldn’t bet turn with 87/86/T8.

So you’re raising in case he’s bluffing with QQ+?

Exactly that reason. River raises at these stakes are almost never a bluff. It is going to be very hard for him to call a pot sized raise with a 1 pair hand. This board favors a calling range much more than it does a 3 bettors range. Also you said this Villain is more likely to make a Hero fold than a Hero call. Let’s give him that chance.
 
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Legend5555

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I also think this is a raise or fold.

What hands are actually betting here for value? Seems like betting an overpair here would be torching money. Maybe he value bets a set, but even then what is he expecting a call from on this board? Does he ever 3 bet 88, 89s, or A8s pre?

Your range is the one that should have most of the 8s. You can very credibly rep 88 or 78s here. I'm not sure you can credibly rep 89s at this point though. With so much money behind, a turn raise (if not a flop raise) should have happened.

If he likes to hero fold, then this seems like a great spot to pull the trigger on a bluff. There is a SMALL chance you are bluffing with the best hand, but that's fine because it's not like you are going to get called by worse anyway.
 

ChaosRock

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It is a very interesting spot on the river with a one-liner to the 8 coming in.

I'm torn.

In theory, I agree with Legend that an overpair should be checking (prove of that is we are considering folding TP). However, in reality, I think quite a few people would bet an overpair here in home games I think, maybe even AJ. So if that's the case, then making a bluff move makes sense as the overpair is probably on a bet/fold line.

Now, if he is never betting an overpair and is polarized to sets or better, then I'm not sure he would make the fold (although he should definitely consider). Villain doesn't get here with too many better hands than a set (again, assuming he is checking overpair). If he had JJ, not sure he would bet that much on the flop. So probably not top set. So that leaves 77 and 66 possibly. Or 88. Maybe even 98s.

Which makes me think he has more over cards bluffs here.

Rambling but I honestly think all three options are on the table, really.

I'm more leaning towards either a call of a fold, although I certainly understand the reasoning of those guys above. Argh! Not sure... LOL! If Hero reads Villain as fold-happy, then I might make the move.

We only have the range advantage of 87s, that's only three combos. He has the 98s advantage though.

If Hero sees Villain as a good player, I'm folding. If not, I'm calling, I guess.
 

Eriks

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It is a very interesting spot on the river with a one-liner to the 8 coming in.

I'm torn.

In theory, I agree with Legend that an overpair should be checking (prove of that is we are considering folding TP). However, in reality, I think quite a few people would bet an overpair here in home games I think, maybe even AJ. So if that's the case, then making a bluff move makes sense as the overpair is probably on a bet/fold line.

Now, if he is never betting an overpair and is polarized to sets or better, then I'm not sure he would make the fold (although he should definitely consider). Villain doesn't get here with too many better hands than a set (again, assuming he is checking overpair). If he had JJ, not sure he would bet that much on the flop. So probably not top set. So that leaves 77 and 66 possibly. Or 88. Maybe even 98s.

Which makes me think he has more over cards bluffs here.

Rambling but I honestly think all three options are on the table, really.

I'm more leaning towards either a call of a fold, although I certainly understand the reasoning of those guys above. Argh! Not sure... LOL! If Hero reads Villain as fold-happy, then I might make the move.

We only have the range advantage of 87s, that's only three combos. He has the 98s advantage though.

If Hero sees Villain as a good player, I'm folding. If not, I'm calling, I guess.

I agree that the river is the really interesting street, maybe the only one where it’s not clear what the best action is (aside from maybe raising as a bluff on the turn instead of flatting).

Love it when all three options are on the table, makes for good discussions. I’ll wait a while before I post results and my reasoning in case someone else wants to chime in.
 

Eriks

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Well I guess it’s just us 4 then.

My thinking on the river is that his range is mostly 98s/AQ/AK. I don’t think he’s gonna turn QQ+ into a bluff that often (I half expect him to check the turn with those for pot control really) and I don’t think he’ll have many 8x in his 3-betting range that will go bet/bet/bet other than 98s.

I ended up calling but I like the idea of raising in case he happens to have that overpair anyway (he would fold those to a raise). I weighed in the bluff I showed him earlier and figured he might be looking to return the favor and perhaps slightly more likely to be 3-betting with a real hand (as oppose to 98s type hands) with a losing and sticky BB still to act pf.

He had AK.

Thanks guys, great insights!
 

Rhodeman77

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The very fast turn bet when the board changes is a huge online tell that many people do!

if he had turned the straight there is no way he bets that fast. He is going to want to think about how much he can bet that you can call.
 

ChaosRock

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Well I guess it’s just us 4 then.

My thinking on the river is that his range is mostly 98s/AQ/AK. I don’t think he’s gonna turn QQ+ into a bluff that often (I half expect him to check the turn with those for pot control really) and I don’t think he’ll have many 8x in his 3-betting range that will go bet/bet/bet other than 98s.

I ended up calling but I like the idea of raising in case he happens to have that overpair anyway (he would fold those to a raise). I weighed in the bluff I showed him earlier and figured he might be looking to return the favor and perhaps slightly more likely to be 3-betting with a real hand (as oppose to 98s type hands) with a losing and sticky BB still to act pf.

He had AK.

Thanks guys, great insights!

Good for Hero!

I would also include 88 in his bet/bet/bet range. Yeah, it doesn't give him the nuts on the river but he could get paid by a quiet set maybe even 2-P.

So you think he would definitely check an overpair on the turn? I can definitely see lots of Villains firing again to keep control of the betting, especially if it's QQ, to also protect.

I think I would have been more prone to raise turn if the turn was the :5h:. That would make him more likely to fold an overpair since we wouldn't be raising with the flush draw.
 

Eriks

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Good for Hero!

I would also include 88 in his bet/bet/bet range. Yeah, it doesn't give him the nuts on the river but he could get paid by a quiet set maybe even 2-P.

So you think he would definitely check an overpair on the turn? I can definitely see lots of Villains firing again to keep control of the betting, especially if it's QQ, to also protect.

I think I would have been more prone to raise turn if the turn was the :5h:. That would make him more likely to fold an overpair since we wouldn't be raising with the flush draw.

88 makes sense except I don’t think he 3-bets it pre. Of course one should never say never..

I don’t think he will always check the turn but when he bets both turn and river fairly big I drasticly deduce the number of overpair combos from his range. It’s probably a case of me knowing his tendencies very well.

I really like the turn raise on a:5h:, makes perfect sense. We might need to bet big on the river as well but I definitely think that line would get him off an overpair.
 

ChaosRock

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Another consideration I ended up not posting is that J9 is a great candidate to flat the river as a buff catcher.

Not only we block his nutted hand 98 but we also unblock his two overs.

Much better to have a 9 here than J with a better kicker like A, K or Q.
 
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