PAHWM: NL Tournament AQ Final Two Tables (1 Viewer)

Moxie Mike

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Build-a-stack tournament at a local charity room last night.

$50 NLHE (50k chips) w/ one rebuy and one $30 break add on (30k chips).

~50 starters; ~2,000,000 chips in play.

ICM considerations: First place pays around $1k-$1200 but most nights there's a chop, especially if play approaches closing time and chip counts will determine the winner. FT is usually a crapshoot with skyrocketing blinds. Usually pays top 5 or 6.

Play in these rooms is about as fundamentally bad as you can imagine, especially during the rebuy period. I could give countless examples - but to give an idea - raised pots often go 5 to the flop until the avg stack gets to around 20 BBs.

16 players remain. Blinds are 3000/6000 and have been reduced from 20 minute rounds to 15.

Folds around to HERO with :ah::qd: in the HiJack. Stack: Healthily above average at 185k. Hero's table image is very TAG -HERO rarely goes to showdown and always tables a solid hand.
HERO opens to 20k.
CO (50k)* folds.
Button (~280k) calls.
Blinds (both short stacked) fold.

Pot: 49k.

*If it matters, CO is a good player and good friend who had just been moved to the CO from another table one hand prior. HERO and CO have a $20 Seinfeld bet on.

Read on Button: Blue collar guy in his early 40s. Quiet and general but doesn't say much. Usually drinks a few Budweiser cans ($2 apiece in this room) and leaves the table periodically to smoke a cigarette. In past events HERO has observed him to be very loose passive preflop - likes to see flops but will fold when he misses. Doesn't tend to table garbage. On this night though, he has gone to limped/called raises preflop and gone to showdown with a plethora of junk hands including 6-2ss, Q-7o, 10-2ss, etc. His stack has fluctuated up and down greatly due to playing junk and making two pair, then donking off chips in subsequently poorly played hands.

Either this is how he always plays and I just never noticed or he's doing something he doesn't normally do.

HERO and button have both been at the same table since the beginning of the tournament (3.5 hrs).

Flop: :4s::5c::ks:.

HERO c-bets 35k.
Button calls after a little hesitation. Pot: 129k.

Turn: :kd:.

HERO 130k left. Action?
 
Give up. Or perhaps a comically small stab now that it’s less likely he’s got the king.

Based on your read I don’t see this type of guy ever folding when he has any piece of this. You’ve got some outs, but I’d rather live to fight another day here and rebuild your stack in another hand than go for the glory against someone who’s only thinking about his own hand.
 
Give up. Or perhaps a comically small stab now that it’s less likely he’s got the king.

True - but what about the very real possibility that we still have the best hand here? The flop call can mean any number of things - including ANY flush or straight draw. I think he's less likely to have a king by the fact that he didn't raise my flop bet. The turn K pairing the board supports that as well.
 
If you really want to, jam and pray. I think you often have to run it out against guys like these, and he’s calling with 4x, 5x, and as you mention any draws.

I prefer a check here because a jam lets him play more or less optimally here. Let him make the mistake and if chips are as easy to come by as you say they are, I’m preserving my stack and finding a better spot with my 20bbs
 
Fold pre -- AQ is a loser. :)

Seriously though, it's a loser here imo. Villain likely has a 4, 5, K, straight draw, or two spades, is never folding, and another bet is just burning money vs this player. Folding to aggression leaves you with a still playable stack, and he very well may check it back giving you a free river card. I don't want to die on the AQ/A-high hill just yet.

Check, and let it go if he fires back.
 
Is the beverage choice and price a read? Can someone translate that into Canadian? That sucker is $5 minimum up here and tastes like butt to boot. Might not even be able to find a can of Bud up here for $2 in the store.

Edit to add: in Whitefish, MT you can get a can of PBR in the Bulldog Saloon for $1. When they run out of that it’s on to Rolling Rock tall boys for $1.50. Canadian currency is accepted at par. They’ve got a poker table in the back. It’s one of my happy places.
 
Edit to add: in Whitefish, MT you can get a can of PBR in the Bulldog Saloon for $1. When they run out of that it’s on to Rolling Rock tall boys for $1.50. Canadian currency is accepted at par. They’ve got a poker table in the back. It’s one of my happy places.

My Grouse Mountain Lodge chips are from Whitefish MT!
 
I check the turn with the intention to give up. I would’ve saved some chips with a smaller cbet. We’re basically trying to fold out worse hands and 20-30k will probably accomplish that as well.
 
Folds around to HERO with :ah::qd: in the HiJack. Stack: Healthily above average at 185k.
HERO opens to 20k.
CO (50k) folds.
Button (~280k) calls.
Blinds (both short stacked) fold.

Pot: 49k.

Flop: :4s::5c::ks:.

HERO c-bets 35k.
Button calls after a little hesitation. Pot: 129k.

Turn: :kd:

HERO (130k) bets 50k.

HERO surmises that he's ahead of ALL unpaired hands in Villain's range, and doesn't want to give a free card to a flush or straight draw. K-x is removed from Villain's range due to card removal and the fact that he didn't raise HERO's flop bet. Representing a big hand seems perfectly reasonable here.

Villain looks at HERO's remaining stack and remarks/questions if HERO has any big chips remaining (HERO does not), then meekly slides a call out after about 20 seconds of deliberation.

River is :7h:. Pot 229k.

HERO's (stack 80k) action?
 
Pre - bet 15 instead of 20.
Flop - bet 25 (the benefit of raising smaller pre)
Turn - turn is a good card for you, but villain is too bad to lay down a hand. Check
River - check. Villain isn't folding a pair if you bet and isn't calling without one.
 
I’m opening smaller to ~15k this late and shallow in a tourney.
On the flop I probably go half check back, half c bet small ~20k
Checking back the turn with a little bit of showdown value with the nut no pair. I think he has a lot of middling pairs, suited connectors that may have hit the 4 or 5 and some kings.
 
Guessing villain had 99-JJ. The smaller pre flop raise would have allowed him to three bet. I’m guessing that even if he put you on AK with the K on the turn he’s removing that from your range for the same reason we have. Maybe a 2 would have been a better turn cards for us and our current line. Also agree with others that you might have backed yourself into a corner going into the river.
 
*If it matters, CO is a good player and good friend who had just been moved to the CO from another table one hand prior. HERO and CO have a $20 Seinfeld bet on.

pretty sure your bet on how long you can remain the ‘master of your domain’ is irrelevant. Are u Jerry or George? Unless Seinfeld bet is not referring to ‘The Contest’. Then what is it?
 
I check and probably call. Not getting any pairs to fold; not getting much worse to call. May miss value from AJ-A8, but Maybe u can save 10bb when a paired 4 or 5 or 7 check back. At this point those saved 80k are worth more than those 80 earned.
 
Ugh this thread is so sick. First AQ, such a trouble hand but an obvious open in this position at this stage of the tournament. But the worst case scenario is getting called by someone in position that can break us. Especially since hero has a significant stack.

Cbet on the flop seems standard here but the call is unsettling given hero's read and villian likely aware, doubling up hero is expensive.

On this night though, he has gone to limped/called raises preflop and gone to showdown with a plethora of junk hands including 6-2ss, Q-7o, 10-2ss, etc. H

Considering this and the flop call, So I think I would interpret the call on the flop as villian has at least a draw, but I wouldn't rule out playing cop with 4x or 5x here either.
HERO surmises that he's ahead of ALL unpaired hands in Villain's range, and doesn't want to give a free card to a flush or straight draw.

Well A-Q hi is the nut no pair here.

Villain looks at HERO's remaining stack and remarks/questions if HERO has any big chips remaining (HERO does not), then meekly slides a call out after about 20 seconds of deliberation.

This is pretty sick if villian has a king or better. If this is not a usual antic, I would really be cautious about this being a weak means strong expression.

I like the blocker bet on the turn though. Shoving seems to be a game theory disaster and shoving is probably more suspicious than a value-lookong bet here. This would be a good bet if hero had a king as well, imo.

And I appreciate how complete the OP's read is. But the one thing not mentioned is whether or not villian bluffs here. If it's not very often, this is a pretty easy bet-fold spot.

Now that we have been called. It's a pretty easy check on the river and then we really have to evaluate if villian bluffs if shoved on. If villian isn't a bluffer, it's pretty easy to play the river perfectly, fold.to a bet, win the pot most of the time if he checks. If villian is a bluffer then hero has to decide if AQ is in the defendable range. I probably could pass here knowing I can end up with many better hands on this line.

Fascinating hand, but I just hate this spot pre. It's not an easy hand for sure.
 
I’m opening smaller to ~15k this late and shallow in a tourney.

My bet sizing was to put the short stacks into all in or fold mode. Believe it not, players with <10BB stacks will still call and play fit/fold poker in this room when facing a callable bet.

I check and probably call.

If you're willing to call it off here, why not jam?

pretty sure your bet on how long you can remain the ‘master of your domain’ is irrelevant. Are u Jerry or George? Unless Seinfeld bet is not referring to ‘The Contest’. Then what is it?

It's just a last longer bet between she and I.
 
I'm checking knowing he's a smoker and will call with his middle pair saying " I need a smoke anyway, all in" therefore crushing your ace hi.
 
If you're willing to call it off here, why not jam?

I dont think u are getting better to fold, so it’s all risk no reward. I’m hoping some better hands check back and I save chips. But I also tend not to believe, so with this part of my range am defending against a bluff (possible spaz caused by my weakness)

edit: ‘this part of my range’. Tried to sound smart, in all likelihood I sounded dumb.
 
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Now that we have been called. It's a pretty easy check on the river and then we really have to evaluate if villian bluffs if shoved on. If villian isn't a bluffer, it's pretty easy to play the river perfectly, fold.to a bet, win the pot most of the time if he checks. If villian is a bluffer then hero has to decide if AQ is in the defendable range. I probably could pass here knowing I can end up with many better hands on this line.

I don't know if he's a bluffer but I suspect not. Although the pot is big enough that if he has air he may set me in if checked to out of desperation. In that situation I don't think I could find a call.

The river card was placed and I considered my options. When I bet the turn I knew I was only leaving myself a 10BB stack as soon as the blinds go up (within 5 mins)... so in all likelihood the rest of the tournament is going to be a struggle if I don't win this hand. So after about 10 seconds, I jammed in the last 80k.

I wasn't looking for value, I knew I'd only be called when I was beat. I also didn't think he'd check back with air. He might check back A-x of spades, but that seems like wishful thinking.

He was clearly uncomfortable, and asked for a count from the dealer. He then cut out the proper amount from his stack and contemplated for about 90 seconds.
When he didn't snap call I actually thought he might fold, but then he finally slid his chips forward reluctantly.

"Nice Call", I said quietly as I tabled my hand.

He said thanks, and turned over :6d::4d:.

So it sucks to be out after I was more or less primed for a deep run, but here's what I learned:

Never bluff that player again. BTW you can save your 'thank you Captain Obvious' remarks. This is actually valuable.

I like my line on every street again a different opponent or in a game with more skilled players, but in this case, I made the game more complicated than it needed to be. This is the biggest case for checking/folding, even after missing the flop. TAG fundamentals with no funny-business will get you to the final table pretty consistently in these charity rooms (as long as you run decent). This is not a place for advanced plays.

He most certainly would have checked back that river, and I would have spent the next month contemplating whether I could have moved him off his hand with a jam. At least now I know.
 
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Way late to this party. I assume there are no antes, and as such I feel the pre flop open is much too large. You are putting over 10% of your stack at risk which will make playing post flop very difficult. The smaller your open, the smaller you post flop bets can be to accomplish the same things. And this shallow, it's usually easy to get all the money in post flop if you want to even when opening smaller.

The flop is fairly dry, and as such I don't think betting anything more than half pot is necessary. C-betting is definitely the right play the majority of the time though. Now we have committed 55k and only have a pot sized bet left going to the turn. So we can't even effectively triple barrel bluff. We didn't even turn any equity. Once we get called on the flop and the board pairs, it's just time to give up. We are OOP and have very little to go on here. And given the read on villain, trying to force him off a hand seems like a mistake. Preserve our stack and give up.
 

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