PAHWM: NFD facing aggressive action (1 Viewer)

[boltonguy]

25NL fast fold. AhJh in SB. UTG opens to 3BB. Normally I would 3! but it seems like noones folding to 3! tonight and I'm down a BI so I decide to flat. BB comes along.

Flop is pretty favorable. Hero X, BB X, V bets under 1/3 pot. Hero?

 

[shorticus]

25NL fast fold. AhJh in SB. UTG opens to 3BB. Normally I would 3! but it seems like noones folding to 3! tonight and I'm down a BI so I decide to flat. BB comes along.

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Flop is pretty favorable. Hero X, BB X, V bets under 1/3 pot. Hero?

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Very very tiny bet. Seems to be begging for a call. I’m imagining something strong here.

I don’t want to bloat the pot here with one to act behind. Let’s call and make sure we are giving BB an opportunity to call as well.

Im feeling KK KQdd 99 or 78dd make a play like this. All are in villain’s range.

 

[Legend5555]

25NL fast fold. AhJh in SB. UTG opens to 3BB. Normally I would 3! but it seems like noones folding to 3! tonight and I'm down a BI so I decide to flat. BB comes along.

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Flop is pretty favorable. Hero X, BB X, V bets under 1/3 pot. Hero?

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You can have all the sets here, so I think a check raise could be good. However, with the third person in, there is something to be said for calling with a nut draw to keep worse draws (both straight and flush) in. Also, you are just getting great direct odds to draw to the flush.

My non-GTO opinion is to do a mix of raise and call, but more call given the 3 way nature. I'd be more apt to raise a non nut flush draw to bump out the extra player.

 

[Legend5555]

Very very tiny bet. Seems to be begging for a call. I’m imagining something strong here.

I don’t want to bloat the pot here with one to act behind. Let’s call and make sure we are giving BB an opportunity to call as well.

Im feeling KK KQdd 99 or 78dd make a play like this. All are in villain’s range.

It is a very strange bet size for this board texture. Though the 3 way nature of the pot should lend to smaller bet sizes on the flop because of multiway responsibility.

 

[boltonguy]

So perhaps I made a mistake here, I X/R to about 3.5x. BB folds and V re-raises to 2.5x. Hero?

 

[shorticus]

So perhaps I made a mistake here, I X/R to about 3.5x. BB folds and V re-raises to 2.5x. Hero?

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Will respond shortly. Accidental click…but yuck!

 

[shorticus]

Will respond shortly. Accidental click…but yuck!

Okay, so the reraise here is disgusting. I hate it, but it reveals his strength. Hero’s range is definitely more condensed now. KK, QQ, 99, 66, and 44are capable of making this play. We might have a 64 in there but it’s not very likely and 94 is not even a consideration imo. 64 has to be suited which means he’s not blocking our diamonds if that’s the case. I hate this situation, but I think this hand is a call.

 

[grebe]

I like a call with the other player involved. Funny, I seem to be the one advocating 3 bets more, and the two guys that are usually the voice of reason are promoting c/r while I am flatting!

As played, you have a lot of equity. Call and check any turn.

 

[Legend5555]

I can't see folding the turn getting almost 3.5 to 1. I really don't like villains 3bet on the flop with almost any hand. You are basically only repping sets, occasional 69s, and big draws. Yet villain has decided to make his range face up as overpairs, sets, and 7h8h. So you can basically play perfectly now. Call and hope you get there. Check all turns and hope he so just blasts on any heart. If you turn an A and he checks back turn, you also likely have the best hand and can evaluate and block/value bet most rivers.

 

[LeLe]

2 over card nut flush draw that is (up to) 15 outs at flop that 60% in odds for drawing at least one at river or turn.

I will RR to 50bb and will snap call any All in jam.

If it a flip is a good flip and you will put the V on tough spot with the RR

 

[grebe]

2 over card nut flush draw that is 15 outs at flop that 60% in odds for drawing at least one at river or turn.

I will RR to 50bb and will snap call any All in jam.

If it a flip is a good flip and you will put the V on tough spot with the RR

I am not believing that we have 15 outs here. This is screaming over pair, so at best we have 12...maybe he has TT to give us the full 15. We could have as few as 9. If we held AKh, then it would be a little better. If he happens to have a big ace (or A9), that also takes away a bunch of outs for us. If he has a set, well then we need the flush AND THEN a clean runout.

Not saying a jam is bad here, just saying you can't count all those outs. I just can't fathom us getting an all in call here and we having 15 outs. My guess is if we jam and get called, we NEED the flush.

Also, we are a little deep here. Getting it in bad with 130bb's effective seems like a big punt.

 

[LeLe]

I think i should add it up to 15 outs, i just felt that the way the V is playing he is either playing a very gusty bluff or protecting his hand with hand that is stronger than us but we have 2 card to catch up and over take.

With us just calling at pre flop, V are not going to put us at AK AA KK QQ and will put us at A9 , 66 99 44 or Ax flush draw which in Most cases are not going to be an easy call for the V,

This is a board and range that is going to benefit the aggressor most of the time, that why i will tend to play it this way,

 

[boltonguy]

Interesting feedback. I immediately thought that if I was in V's shoes (and I have been in this spot before) I am definitely raising here with an overpair or a set. Re-raise to try and deny Hero's drawing equity while it is most likely that V is ahead. So I out him on an overpair or set, not a draw because I think a draw would be more inclined to fold here against my X/R range.

I do have all the sets in my range though and considered jamming. I didnt feel like I would have a huge amount of FE based on how sticky the pool has been playing lately - I'll post another hand from last night to illustrate this. So I'm trying to ratchet back my style and avoid flips when deeper stacked. So I called as I felt I had good implied odds for the call.

Not the turn Hero wants to see. Hero X and V fires a 3/4 pot sized bet. Hero?

 

[shorticus]

Do we think a diamond river unpaired gets us a call from villian? As a matter of fact, do we have any information on villain? If none, it’s a fold. Calling when we are ~80/20 in big pots isn’t the situation I like to see myself in. It’s sure to lead to us going broke in the long run.

As played to this point it’s a fold for me.

 

[LeLe]

I agreed with @shorticus calling at this point with the pot odd is just not good enough anymore.

It become either a Fold or a RR Jam hoping the V fold.

Which in this case i will Fold to the bet

 

[boltonguy]

As a matter of fact, do we have any information on villain? If none, it’s a fold.

Unfortunately not - this is anonymous fast fold so zero information about V.

 

[shorticus]

Unfortunately not - this is anonymous fast fold so zero information about V.

I figured as much.

 

[Legend5555]

Just fold now on the turn. We took our good pot odds and didn't get there. It happens. Time to move on.

 

[Legend5555]

FWIW, I also don't think we have all 15 outs. And I also think we have no fold equity. I can't imagine a player with a hand at these stakes that's 3 betting the flop intending to fold to another raise. It just basically never happens. We have 12 outs at best IMO except for the rare times we might be up against exactly 7h8h.

 

[shorticus]

FWIW, I also don't think we have all 15 outs. And I also think we have no fold equity. I can't imagine a player with a hand at these stakes that's 3 betting the flop intending to fold to another raise. It just basically never happens. We have 12 outs at best IMO except for the rare times we might be up against exactly 7h8h.

100% we don’t have 15 outs. I’m only depending on 9 diamonds any A or J just gives us minimal showdown value. It’s possible, but does 7/8dd play the flop that way? I’m think 7/8 doesn’t bait you so that he can reraise there. I think standard c-bet there in an attempt to keep both players in the pot. I could be wrong, but that’s an awkward line for 78dd.

 

[Legend5555]

100% we don’t have 15 outs. I’m only depending on 9 diamonds any A or J just gives us minimal showdown value. It’s possible, but does 7/8dd play the flop that way? I’m think 7/8 doesn’t bait you so that he can reraise there. I think standard c-bet there in an attempt to keep both players in the pot. I could be wrong, but that’s an awkward line for 78dd.

I can't imagine 7d8d going crazy with a 3 bet on the flop. They would just call flop and then jam over a turn bet on a turn diamond or hitting their straight.

 

[shorticus]

I can't imagine 7d8d going crazy with a 3 bet on the flop. They would just call flop and then jam over a turn bet on a turn diamond or hitting their straight.

Sry I meant 7h8h

 

[grebe]

unfortunate fold here. 37 to win 85 and 18% to hit the flush. Good play by V, over pair is good.

To shove here....you need almost 50% fold to make this breakeven long run as a bluff. You also get the 5:1 of hitting your gin to be good. I still don't think you have it with no reads. I tried to do the math but screwed it up to figure how many folds you need to have to make this profitable. Maybe I will figure it out and post it later.

 

[boltonguy]

So Hero sigh folded
Will download the hand history later this evening (big bonus of playing on Ignition) and share V's exact hand.

 

[raynmanas]

So Hero sigh folded
Will download the hand history later this evening (big bonus of playing on Ignition) and share V's exact hand.

Wait, what? You can go back and see other people's hand if it doesn't go to a showdown? I play on Ignition all the time and have seen no such thing. That would be pretty BS if true.

 

[Legend5555]

Wait, what? You can go back and see other people's hand if it doesn't go to a showdown? I play on Ignition all the time and have seen no such thing. That would be pretty BS if true.

It is true. You have to wait 24hrs before you can do it. But you get to see all hands everyone had regardless of when players folded. Given it's purely anonymous, it doesn't convey much help other than getting general stats on the pool as a whole. But it's designed to be used as evidence of potential anonymous collusion.

 

[raynmanas]

It is true. You have to wait 24hrs before you can do it. But you get to see all hands everyone had regardless of when players folded. Given it's purely anonymous, it doesn't convey much help other than getting general stats on the pool as a whole. But it's designed to be used as evidence of potential anonymous collusion.

Okay, the 24 hours thing makes sense then.

 

[boltonguy]

Yes - after 24 hours you get every hand you sit at. So at zone if you fold pre and move immediately to another table you can D/L the hand and all hole cards and actions.

 

[boltonguy]

He had it. I folded.

 

[warma]

You could have pulled that flush on the River…