PAHWM K2s 3-handed (1 Viewer)

Eriks

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A fun one from yesterday’s homegame with a few decision points I thought might be interesting. We’ve played for 10 hours at this point. Started 8-handed but now we’re down to 3 and play is winding down.

BTN - very loose preflop and somewhat sticky post. Seen him play all sorts of crap, both raising, calling raises and 3-bets (I’m talking T3o kinda crap).
SB - a member here so I don’t want to post too many reads ;). I will say that he usually bets when checked to or takes control and bets when oop and the raiser has checked behind on previous street.

NLH 5/5 SEK ($0.5/0.5)

Effective stacks are around 3k

Preflop:

BTN raises blind to 25 (been doing this all night), SB calls and hero looks down on

:ks::2s:

Hero?
 
The button can't straddle?

Very short handed is more image and momentum. hero image and the last 10 minutes worth of results would be interesting. Can we attribute the blind bet from button as attacking Hero's big blind - i.e. it is personal?

I could argue for a 3-bet in the right circumstances but I think a call might be better.
 
I can see an argument for all 3 actions. Though I assume from the description that you aren't expecting to get many folds when you 3-bet, so maybe we take that out of the equation because a lot of the value of 3-betting something like this is just getting folds.

We are only 3 handed, but K2s is still pretty crappy. Honestly, I just fold. I'm not interested in taking K2s multiway when I'm basically only happy making 2 pair plus. If we flop a K, we are basically forced to call down if it gets heads up giving the villain description. We can just find better spots I think.

Though, obviously we are going to the flop somehow here.
 
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The button can't straddle?

Very short handed is more image and momentum. hero image and the last 10 minutes worth of results would be interesting. Can we attribute the blind bet from button as attacking Hero's big blind - i.e. it is personal?

I could argue for a 3-bet in the right circumstances but I think a call might be better.
Straddles are banned in this game as I wanted to keep it 5/5 because some of the players are used to playing 5/10 without any caps on buy-ins and unlimited straddles, but others are more used to 1/2 and consider 5/5 a stretch.

Nothing personal in the blind bet, he’s been doing it on and off all night from when we were 8-handed.

Hero has been dealt mostly complete trash and has been folding a lot pre the last orbits.
 
I completely agree that K2s isn’t a power house and perhaps it’s ok or even best to just fold. My thinking was that it was a blind raise followed by just a call so I figured there was a decent chance I could steal it now or at least get it heads-up with the initiative.

I’ll continue:

A fun one from yesterday’s homegame with a few decision points I thought might be interesting. We’ve played for 10 hours at this point. Started 8-handed but now we’re down to 3 and play is winding down.

BTN - very loose preflop and somewhat sticky post. Seen him play all sorts of crap, both raising, calling raises and 3-bets (I’m talking T3o kinda crap).
SB - a member here so I don’t want to post too many reads ;). I will say that he usually bets when checked to or takes control and bets when oop and the raiser has checked behind on previous street.

NLH 5/5 SEK ($0.5/0.5)

Effective stacks are around 3k

Preflop:

BTN raises blind to 25 (been doing this all night), SB calls and hero looks down on

:ks::2s:

Hero makes it 125
BTN folds
SB calls

Pot 275

Flop :7c::kd::9d:

SB checks, hero?
 
I check back a lot here. Yes there are a lot of draws, but we have TPWK. We have to have some check backs, and we don't really want to continue boating the pot with a weak TP. I don't expect many folds if we bet here, though we can get value. But villain can have some dominating hands in this configuration like KT-KQ depending on how aggressively they 3-bet pre. And if villain is competent, then he can raise and should raise 77, 99, 79s, T8, the broadway combo draws, and if really frisky broadway club hands, all of which are going to be in his double flatting range this deep at some frequency. (Though obviously he should be 3 betting them this deep.)

Anyway, I don't see us getting more than 1 or 2 streets of value. So like I like mostly checking to keep the pot under control. Some betting if villain doesn't play his hands aggressively post.
 
Looks like this will be a three man show only, and I’ll move it along. I could do a lot worse than you guys @Legend5555 @DrStrange I’m always keen on getting your thoughts on hands, thank you!

Anyway, my thoughts were in line with your reasoning @Legend5555 I have a vulnerable TP on a draw heavy board but I thought I’d sacrifice protection from those, as I don’t want to get blown off my hand and it’s unlikely that I’ll get 3 streets of value. I guess I shouldn’t be too afraid to give a free card considering we’re only 3-handed, and he could have a lot of hands that are drawing slim. I may also induce bluffs by underrepping my hand. This is probably one of the two decisions in the hand that I was most unsure of.

Continuing:

A fun one from yesterday’s homegame with a few decision points I thought might be interesting. We’ve played for 10 hours at this point. Started 8-handed but now we’re down to 3 and play is winding down.

BTN - very loose preflop and somewhat sticky post. Seen him play all sorts of crap, both raising, calling raises and 3-bets (I’m talking T3o kinda crap).
SB - a member here so I don’t want to post too many reads ;). I will say that he usually bets when checked to or takes control and bets when oop and the raiser has checked behind on previous street.

NLH 5/5 SEK ($0.5/0.5)

Effective stacks are around 3k

Preflop:

BTN raises blind to 25 (been doing this all night), SB calls and hero looks down on

:ks::2s:

Hero makes it 125
BTN folds
SB calls

Pot 275

Flop :7c::kd::9d:

SB checks, hero checks behind.

Pot 275

Board :7c::kd::9d::9h:

SB leads for 250, hero?
 
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Pretty standard call given we checked back flop. Raising CAN get called by flush draws we beat, but it also blows him off random gutters we want him to bluff with. Plus, it will never get the villain to fold better Ks or 9s. More important to keep the pot small and keep in the bluffs. So call.
 
I will not linger on the turn decision as I think it’s the least interesting one of this hand. I agree it’s a very standard call given the flop checkback.

I will leave the river open for a while though and hopefully we can get even more input here. Maybe @OfficerLovejoy @JackDeRke @boltonguy ?


Continuing:


A fun one from yesterday’s homegame with a few decision points I thought might be interesting. We’ve played for 10 hours at this point. Started 8-handed but now we’re down to 3 and play is winding down.

BTN - very loose preflop and somewhat sticky post. Seen him play all sorts of crap, both raising, calling raises and 3-bets (I’m talking T3o kinda crap).
SB - a member here so I don’t want to post too many reads ;). I will say that he usually bets when checked to or takes control and bets when oop and the raiser has checked behind on previous street.

NLH 5/5 SEK ($0.5/0.5)

Effective stacks are around 3k

Preflop:

BTN raises blind to 25 (been doing this all night), SB calls and hero looks down on

:ks::2s:

Hero makes it 125
BTN folds
SB calls

Pot 275

Flop :7c::kd::9d:

SB checks, hero checks behind.

Pot 275

Board :7c::kd::9d::9h:

SB leads for 250, hero calls.

Pot 775

Board :7c::kd::9d::9h::6s:

SB bets 700, hero?
 
I think this is about exactly what I´d expect from an Erik Playstyle :D

I can relate to the button though ;)

Alrighty. K2s pre is way to strong not to raise pre when you are 3handed. So I agree.

I don´t like the flop check back. While certainly standard in a 5-10 handed game this is three handed, so when people can be in there with a lot of worse hands which can call. Then you should start charging them there and then, because no 67s, T9s, T8s and so on will certainly call at least one bet.

This would likely also prevent the turn lead from SB and give you the chance there to check back or keep going depending on how "good" the card is for you.
The 9 boardpair isn´t the greatest, but it it also not terrible.
As played the call is standard, but again I don´t love it.

If it were a bet and call on the flop this lead is usually weakness as in trying to represent. While hands like T9 meaning trips now, are certainly possible, the boardpair also makes them less likely.

River.
Well the 6 is shit. The most obvious straightdraw T8 which I think is more likely then just trips here got there. So as played and with a lot getting there, all while a better king is a possibility from a more passive player I think this is a fold.
Though since you´re telling this story I think you called.
Which fits the "wanting to call critical thinking playertype" so Erik :D.

Lets say it would have been a bet-call flop into donk-turn-call then the river bet would be so big with a similar sizing that the fold becomes a lot easier.
If you´d even raise the donk lead you´d be able to fold right there when raised further or have the check back available on the river with a higher frequency.
 
I think this is about exactly what I´d expect from an Erik Playstyle :D
Hahaha

I don´t like the flop check back. While certainly standard in a 5-10 handed game this is three handed, so when people can be in there with a lot of worse hands which can call. Then you should start charging them there and then, because no 67s, T9s, T8s and so on will certainly call at least one bet.
Dude, you know damn well I don’t have K2s in this spot in a 5-10 handed game :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:.

Ok, I can see the logic behind a bet. I think one big negative aspect of that though (for me) is that I risk putting myself in situations I don’t know how the hell to maneuver. It’s easier when the pot is small (yes I suck at very shorthanded poker).

Though since you´re telling this story I think you called.
Which fits the "wanting to call critical thinking playertype" so Erik :D.
Your bread and butter ;)
 
Your bread and butter ;)
Best thing is, that I think I know pretty well how you handle these situations and still make mistakes against you :D

I´d start arguing now about the K2s in the 5-10 handed game ;) but I doubt that´ll be such an easy argument. In the end, you have the correct position, meaning not the BB then you certainly can and should play KXs :D

I think a lot of people have this problem. While not realizing, that they then often end up making a wrong call in a pot were they wouldn´t have, if it were bigger in the first place because the bets would adjust accordingly.


I mean I think all the bets from SB here are really large in comparison to the pot. But they are small in comparison to your stacks.
Likely due to it being a 3k stack in a 5/5 game. Which I personally prefere to be even deeper, but heck do I know :D
Its easier to call when your stack is big and the pot is small, which often leads to a call were you´d usually fold if it were a bigger bet.
Having a uniformity in the size of the pots I think it´ll be more beneficiary to have a larger pot on average and making good decisions then having smaller ones and constantly leaking. So your risk is broken down to the bottom a leak which I´ll gladly abuse :*
 
I will not linger on the turn decision as I think it’s the least interesting one of this hand. I agree it’s a very standard call given the flop checkback.

I will leave the river open for a while though and hopefully we can get even more input here. Maybe @OfficerLovejoy @JackDeRke @boltonguy ?


Continuing:


A fun one from yesterday’s homegame with a few decision points I thought might be interesting. We’ve played for 10 hours at this point. Started 8-handed but now we’re down to 3 and play is winding down.

BTN - very loose preflop and somewhat sticky post. Seen him play all sorts of crap, both raising, calling raises and 3-bets (I’m talking T3o kinda crap).
SB - a member here so I don’t want to post too many reads ;). I will say that he usually bets when checked to or takes control and bets when oop and the raiser has checked behind on previous street.

NLH 5/5 SEK ($0.5/0.5)

Effective stacks are around 3k

Preflop:

BTN raises blind to 25 (been doing this all night), SB calls and hero looks down on

:ks::2s:

Hero makes it 125
BTN folds
SB calls

Pot 275

Flop :7c::kd::9d:

SB checks, hero checks behind.

Pot 275

Board :7c::kd::9d::9h:

SB leads for 250, hero calls.

Pot 775

Board :7c::kd::9d::9h::6s:

SB bets 700, hero?
I call pre. I don't want to play a potentially big pot with a hand with bad post flop playability.
Raising is fine too for the reasons already laid out.

That flop would be easier to play with just a call pre flop. ;)
As played, I bet small to keep the initiative (mostly why we raised pre anyways) and protect.

Turn: yup, standard call.

River: well we played this hand as meek as we could, so I call vs the polarized bet size after the FD misses.
You should still be good here most of the time. Sometimes you get shown a 9 but such is life.
 
These few sentences took me long enough to miss the whole analysis by malte. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
I was feeding the baby in between words though. ;)
His thoughts are better laid out than mine so better go with his approach. ;)
 
Interesting! I’m glad we don’t all immediately agree. Means there was some merit in posting the hand.
 
I think what made the hand harder to play was the lack of a consistent game plan for the rest of the hand.
If you check back that flop after seizing the initiative pre, you are basically trapping with a mediocre hand.
That invites sb to fire turn and river and as played I don't think you can fold with that run out.
Yeah, T8 got there, a 9 is very possible and after your pf raise some bigger Kings could still be in the mix that feel good enough to bet pot on the river (not many though).
I just don't think after underrepping all the way (except pf when your hand was actually built on hopes and dreams) you can fold this river.
The cb on the flop is not wrong and important for balancing purposes, just be prepared to follow through when the runout is decent like here with a board pair, FD miss and an undercard to your top pair.
 
All of the above is assuming of course that villain is capable of big river bluffs which for most rec players in my private homegame is not really the case.
But if your villain is on the balanced/aggressive side, yeah I call here.
 
I think I'm folding the river a good amount of the time. Depens if you have seen him run many big bluffs earlier. I am someone who generally likes calling a lot, lol, but two almost pot sized bets after that second 9 hit makes me see ghosts. Called down in similar spots so many times and been wrong before. He could very well have a nine in his hand given his preflop action.

That being said your flop check back makes the spot more interesting as you are underrepping your hand a lot
 
I think what made the hand harder to play was the lack of a consistent game plan for the rest of the hand.
The plan was to induce bluffs and mostly call down. But did he really have to bet to so big? I did not like that one bit, no sir I did not.

All of the above is assuming of course that villain is capable of big river bluffs which for most rec players in my private homegame is not really the case.
But if your villain is on the balanced/aggressive side, yeah I call here.
I’m used to strapping in and call down vs. the German sharks of course, but this is only the third time I play with this villain. I believe I haven’t seen him show down any big bluffs but he has certainly made enough big river bets to lead me to believe that he is capable of making them.
 
I just don't think after underrepping all the way (except pf when your hand was actually built on hopes and dreams) you can fold this river.
The cb on the flop is not wrong and important for balancing purposes, just be prepared to follow through when the runout is decent like here with a board pair, FD miss and an undercard to your top pair.
Well build on hopes and dreams is the wrong approch for a 3handed game :D
So I honestly think just calling and having the blind raiser in there "always Tm" is not so great.

Just necessary to either give up or follow through on the hand.
Well I mean a Khigh hand is strong on a (really)shorthanded game without hitting a pair. So when you hit you should get paid. Because TBH. betting small here you even get calls from Ace high, openenders, gutshots, backdoor flushdraws. What not. So many trash hands that call when you downbet you can get insane value over time.

Consistency is the key to the dam door. Having little to no actual leaks is how you can keep yours shut while others are open :D
 
Well build on hopes and dreams is the wrong approch for a 3handed game :D
So I honestly think just calling and having the blind raiser in there "always Tm" is not so great.

Just necessary to either give up or follow through on the hand.
Well I mean a Khigh hand is strong on a (really)shorthanded game without hitting a pair. So when you hit you should get paid. Because TBH. betting small here you even get calls from Ace high, openenders, gutshots, backdoor flushdraws. What not. So many trash hands that call when you downbet you can get insane value over time.

Consistency is the key to the dam door. Having little to no actual leaks is how you can keep yours shut while others are open :D
Fair point. :tup:
 
What would be good bluff candidates from villain’s perspective and what range do you put me on if you’re villain?
 
What would be good bluff candidates from villain’s perspective and what range do you put me on if you’re villain?
Good bluffs would be missed straightdraws like JT or 86, weak pairs, as with the big turn bet those are never good when you´re calling.
I don´t think I like much else.

I´d say with your action preflop. It´s 3handed can be anything tbh. maybe not 72o but you get the deal. There will likely be a higher card in there, but all connectors are in there and maybe even one or twogaped suited hands. So. A LOT.

Flop I´d say you likely have some sort of showdown value or else you might consider betting more, unless you have given up, which with this board texture is unlikely.

Turn. You might even be able to hold a 9 for trips. Which knowing my own hand I´d know how likely it is. So that information might be necessary. But else I´d argue that with this big time lead on a paired board with no flushdraw it´s really likely to be a single pair. So maybe a King. Or possibly even a pocket like TT,JJ or QQ which are possible and you´d likely not raise anymore, while you could´ve been treading carfully on the flop.

River. Since you called the turn and didn´t raise or what not, that river is irrelevant to you, so this opens up possibilities for me to bluff with missed hands, since you are super capped at pairs which hate live or maybe trips which call anyways, but that risk will be neccesary to be taken. Depending on if I have a 9, a pair or a bluff I´d size accordingly. Meaning bluffs and trips/fullhouses get the larger bet treatment. Or even an overbet as I love it. And the simple pairs might get a small size for blockbets and such while a straight likely get a small to medium size bet.

Certainly an interesting hand.
 
Good bluffs would be missed straightdraws like JT or 86, weak pairs, as with the big turn bet those are never good when you´re calling.
I don´t think I like much else.

I´d say with your action preflop. It´s 3handed can be anything tbh. maybe not 72o but you get the deal. There will likely be a higher card in there, but all connectors are in there and maybe even one or twogaped suited hands. So. A LOT.

Flop I´d say you likely have some sort of showdown value or else you might consider betting more, unless you have given up, which with this board texture is unlikely.

Turn. You might even be able to hold a 9 for trips. Which knowing my own hand I´d know how likely it is. So that information might be necessary. But else I´d argue that with this big time lead on a paired board with no flushdraw it´s really likely to be a single pair. So maybe a King. Or possibly even a pocket like TT,JJ or QQ which are possible and you´d likely not raise anymore, while you could´ve been treading carfully on the flop.

River. Since you called the turn and didn´t raise or what not, that river is irrelevant to you, so this opens up possibilities for me to bluff with missed hands, since you are super capped at pairs which hate live or maybe trips which call anyways, but that risk will be neccesary to be taken. Depending on if I have a 9, a pair or a bluff I´d size accordingly. Meaning bluffs and trips/fullhouses get the larger bet treatment. Or even an overbet as I love it. And the simple pairs might get a small size for blockbets and such while a straight likely get a small to medium size bet.

Certainly an interesting hand.
Haha river is certainly a spot where I would expect a big overbet from you a lot of the times. You’re tough to play against!
 
Alright conclusion time:

Hero folds :)

I thought about it for at least a couple of minutes and was really torn. I had the calling chips cut out but in the end I just couldn’t throw em in there. Yes, I underrepped my hand and it certainly seemed possible I was getting bluffed. I stared into his soul though and pulled out some PH white magic read and mucked my cards.

He did not show, but later told me he had 66 for the rivered boat.
 
Alright conclusion time:

Hero folds :)

I thought about it for at least a couple of minutes and was really torn. I had the calling chips cut out but in the end I just couldn’t throw em in there. Yes, I underrepped my hand and it certainly seemed possible I was getting bluffed. I stared into his soul though and pulled out some PH white magic read and mucked my cards.

He did not show, but later told me he had 66 for the rivered boat.
I don't hate the bet with 66 on the turn since you can have some Ax stuff here to protect against. I don't know if betting pot on turn was the needed sizing though.
 
I don't hate the bet with 66 on the turn since you can have some Ax stuff here to protect against. I don't know if betting pot on turn was the needed sizing though.
I kinda like it, at least if the plan was to follow through on say a black deuce river. Because obv the pot sized bet turns the hand into a bluff on the turn.
 

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