PAHWM: Ignition 25NL Zone KK in BB (1 Viewer)

boltonguy

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25NL 6-max anonymous fast fold. No reads, no HUDs.
Hero in BB holds :kh::ks:.
Villain in UTG is effective stack with $42.53. Villain open raises to $0.75.
Folds to Hero. This is a standard 3 bet and Hero makes it pot plus a click so $2.85.
Villain 4 bets to $7.80.

Hero?
 
25NL 6-max anonymous fast fold. No reads, no HUDs.
Hero in BB holds :kh::ks:.
Villain in UTG is effective stack with $42.53. Villain open raises to $0.75.
Folds to Hero. This is a standard 3 bet and Hero makes it pot plus a click so $2.85.
Villain 4 bets to $7.80.

Hero?
https://www.pokersnowie.com/preflop-advisor.html

pokersnowie says raise when facing a 4B from UTG when you are in the BB. If you are afraid of running into ACES every time someone 4bets you either need to do some more study or pick a different game. Without coming across harsh but the internet is filled with both free and paid tools that you might want to start looking at.

Happy to point you in the right direction if you are serious about improving your game.
 
Hero has a reverse implied odds problem if he five-bets or jams. Villain will continue with aces and will often fold much of the rest of his range. Hero's range seems really limited to KK+. Though maybe this isn't true playing on-line poker these days.

Hero isn't folding. and I think the raise is ill-advised. So that means Hero calls.

The SPR will be between two and three. Hero is going to be pot committed on many flops. It becomes tricky on ace high flops and some "Broadway" flops. No matter what, Hero is checking the flop and planning to jam or fold. Mostly jam.

DrStrange
 
Hero has a reverse implied odds problem if he five-bets or jams. Villain will continue with aces and will often fold much of the rest of his range. Hero's range seems really limited to KK+. Though maybe this isn't true playing on-line poker these days.

Hero isn't folding. and I think the raise is ill-advised. So that means Hero calls.

The SPR will be between two and three. Hero is going to be pot committed on many flops. It becomes tricky on ace high flops and some "Broadway" flops. No matter what, Hero is checking the flop and planning to jam or fold. Mostly jam.

DrStrange
I agree. Are you really 5-bet shoving QQ or AK. We’re also somewhat deep. I think I prefer not having a 5-bet range at all here. Let’s play some postflop!
 
https://www.pokersnowie.com/preflop-advisor.html

pokersnowie says raise when facing a 4B from UTG when you are in the BB. If you are afraid of running into ACES every time someone 4bets you either need to do some more study or pick a different game. Without coming across harsh but the internet is filled with both free and paid tools that you might want to start looking at.

Happy to point you in the right direction if you are serious about improving your game.

Yes I have Snowie thank you for the reminder. The iPhone app is a bit out of date compared to the desktop app.

Running this in Snowie requires converting from .10/.25 to .10/.20 as Snowie only has the latter stakes. So to convert the bets based on BB:
$0.75 / 0.25 = 3BB x .20 = $0.60 UTG RFI
$2.85 / 0.25 = 11.4 BB x .20 = $2.28 BB 3 bet
$7.80 / 0.25 = 31.2 BB x .20 = $6.24 UTG 4 bet

We can see from the scenario below using adjusted bet sizes for the .20 BB that Snowie plays this as something called a "mixed strategy," meaning that the GTO play is to call 17% of the time and raise 83% of the time.

Playing GTO against unbalanced opponents does help prevent us from being exploited but doesnt help us adjust to the biases of our individual opponent or an anonymous player pool (in our case). If we are playing against a player or pool that only 4bets with AA 100% of the time here, playing GTO will light money on fire.

Snowie.JPG
 
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25NL 6-max anonymous fast fold. No reads, no HUDs.
Hero in BB holds :kh::ks:. Villain in UTG is effective stack with $42.53. Villain open raises to $0.75.
Folds to Hero. This is a standard 3 bet and Hero makes it pot plus a click so $2.85.
Villain 4 bets to $7.80.

Hero calls. Pot is $15.70. Flop comes :8h::js::tc:.

Hero?
 
Scary flop for villains 4-betting range: AK/QQ+/occasional bluff like A5s I guess. Lot of players will 3-bet TT and JJ but few will 4-bet them so you definitely have the range advantage on this flop.

That said, I think we should play in flow and check to him and hopefully collect a bet (which we will flat) from his range that we mostly beat.
 
25NL 6-max anonymous fast fold. No reads, no HUDs.
Hero in BB holds :kh::ks:. Villain in UTG is effective stack with $42.53. Villain open raises to $0.75.
Folds to Hero. This is a standard 3 bet and Hero makes it pot plus a click so $2.85.
Villain 4 bets to $7.80.

Hero calls. Pot is $15.70. Flop comes :8h::js::tc:.
Hero checks to check call. Villain checks.
Turn is :9d:. Hero?
 
Gross turn. We now beat AK, which we block, and pf bluffs, which shouldn’t be plentiful considering we 3-bet his utg open. Check/fold does seem reasonable. Maybe call a smallish bet.
 
If you've seen some of my other posts and threads, you'll know I'm one of those people who insist that KK is quite foldable preflop, given the right circumstances. Unfortunately, those circumstances essentially never exist in anonymous games. I'm afraid you're stuck playing this one out.

@DrStrange hit the nail on the head. Can't fold, and a raise would be a bad idea because basically only AA will ever call, so just flat the preflop raise.

And then this flop. Meh. The check-check is interesting. Hard to see any overpair checking back that flop, and that means AA as well as QQ. Between the 4-bet and the check back, I suspect AK, the only arguably 4-bet-worthy hand that would want a free card on this flop.

The turn makes the board look very threatening, but really, what hands can Villain reasonably have that hit the straight? Really just QQ unless he's an especially loose 4-bettor. But in this spot, with the pot that big and the board that wet, who's checking back with QQ? Not that it's impossible for this to happen, but the information we have indicates it's improbable.

I don't think you want to check to Villain on the turn and give him an opportunity to take a stab that you can't counter without shoving. I think the best move here is to put him in that spot with a modest but decent-sized bet, like you have a Q and want some easy action. Say, $9.75.

The outcome should be roughly binary: if Villain has a Q (likely QQ), he'll probably raise. If not, he'll probably fold. Either way, you get a lot more information from how he reacts to this bet than you would if you were to check and he were to bet. If he just calls, that's not good either, and you should probably not invest any more in this hand.
 
So I think one of the challenges with Zone play is you only have 15 seconds to decide what to do.
I think V's 4-bet range in this configuration is probably {AA, KK, AK} plus some Axs bluffs. I probably dont have AA as I'm jamming flop.
Sitting in this spot after villain checks back what immediately jumps into my head is that villain has AXs either 4 betting for value (AKs) or a bluff/semi-bluff (AJs-). AA and KK bet flop.
I dont think QQ 4 bets. Closing the action BB should only be 3betting very strong hands against UTG's range. IP, flat QQ and see a flop.
I could be very wrong here. So I settle on AXs and check to check/call.

Hero checks, Villain bets $7.46 or half pot. Hero calls. Pot is $30.62.
River is :ts:. Hero?
 
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Closing the action BB should only be 3betting very strong hands against UTG's range.
You're assuming too much about a completely random person.

You have no information to indicate something so specific about this person's 4-betting range. Lots of players go to town with QQ as well as AA, KK, and AK. You can't just rule it out. Hell, he could have 67. We're dealing with a randomized player pool of unknown stock.

No idea what to do on the river, since we didn't get any useful information on the turn. This is what happens when you take a passive line when you really need to clarify your opponent's hand. What could he be betting $7.46 with on the turn? Almost anything. We have no way of knowing now. Spending that $7.46 to bet out instead would have told you a lot more.

Check with the intention of probably folding the river. A call could be considered if the bet is very small, but otherwise save your money.
 
Yeah I agree with the other comments on the turn. Since you flatted the 4 bet pre, you are the guy that can have more queens. I would prefer the lead on the turn. This board is bad for anything villian can 4 bet pre except QQ.
 
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25NL 6-max anonymous fast fold. No reads, no HUDs.
Hero in BB holds :kh::ks:. Villain in UTG is effective stack with $42.53. Villain open raises to $0.75.
Folds to Hero. This is a standard 3 bet and Hero makes it pot plus a click so $2.85.
Villain 4 bets to $7.80.
Hero calls. Pot is $15.70. Flop comes :8h::js::tc:.
Hero checks to check call. Villain checks.
Turn is :9d:.
Hero checks, Villain bets $7.46 or half pot. Hero calls. Pot is $30.62.
River is :ts:.
Hero checks. Villain jams.
Hero calls. Villain shows :ad::kd:
 
Good ending, you played this to bluff catch and you got it. It really is a polarizing bet on the river. I don't think AA is going to shove too often, it's QQ or nothing. Glad it was nothing.
 

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