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Eriks

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A hand from my latest home game that I thought was fairly interesting.

Villain 1 (hijack): female 25ish, limps and calls a lot, uses some weird bet sizings and doesn’t raise much pre. Very sticky post.

Villain 2 (sb): male, 40, ok player. Likes to donk bet a lot. A bit nitty but bluffs occasionally. Will generally 3-bet big hands pre.

Hero: I doubt villain 1 cares too much about how I play. Villain 2 probably views me as a capable and active player. He knows I can call down fairly light.

7-handed. NLH 2/4 swedish krona (slightly more than $0.2/0.4).
Villain 1 ~ 700
Villain 2 ~ 800
Hero ~ 1k

Folds to villain 1 in hijack who opens to 14, co and btn fold, sb calls and hero looks down at JJ in the bb. Action?
 

Trihonda

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I bump it to 46, but would consider a fold if I got re-raised...

I hate playing JJ oop against 2 opponents.
 

Rhodeman77

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Ideally HJ was opening light and lets it go and we can play heads up against SB in position. More reason to go bigger with the raise.
 

Coyote

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I 'd call 80% of the time with the intention of letting the hand eventually go if don't get lucky on the flop;
or raise big, to something like 60 or 70, the rest 20% of the time.
 

chipsncoffee

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I’d 3-bet larger with two opponents in the hand, probably to 60. Being OOP is all the more reason to 3-bet with a premium hand here.
 

Legend5555

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Almost 200bb deep, 3 bet to somewhere between 60-70, which is a little more than pot.

I can also see an argument for flatting OOP against someone whose raising range is quite small. But that also necessitates playing very protectively post flop. I think sometimes you should have stuff like JJ in your flatting range less than 10% of the time.
 

Highli99

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The fact that stack sizes are deep is helpful because you set mine with the right odds. When playing jiggities multi way that is usually what you are doing.
 

Eriks

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General consensus seem to be 3-bet and to 3-bet quite large. A couple of mentions of flatting a small percentage of the time. I agree with 3-betting big as a standard line, this just happened to be one of those rare occurencies where I flatted. Two reasons here: passive player opens and I had been card dead for a while and didn’t wanna announce my big hand (should’ve mentioned that in the op). Anyways I call and we take a flop of:

:2c::5d::9s: Pot: 42

Sb now leads for 30. Action?
 

Legend5555

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Bad spot. Raising overreps your hand, but loses out on protection from the initial raiser. Though if you raise and pre flop raiser 3 bets, you have a pretty easy fold as given the nature of her play as described, she would have you beat like 100% of the time she would 3 bet your raise on this flop.

Does SB ever donk lead with a set? Is he capable of having QQ-AA here ever? I assume not.

With all that, I feel like a smallish raise to like 75-90 will accomplish getting it heads up with SB if raiser indeed has nothing. Then you can play with position against SB. If raiser raises you, fold. If she calls, we play super cautiously from here on out. I'd assume we are beat a decent amount of the time if she continues.
 

Eriks

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Bad spot. Raising overreps your hand, but loses out on protection from the initial raiser. Though if you raise and pre flop raiser 3 bets, you have a pretty easy fold as given the nature of her play as described, she would have you beat like 100% of the time she would 3 bet your raise on this flop.

Does SB ever donk lead with a set? Is he capable of having QQ-AA here ever? I assume not.

With all that, I feel like a smallish raise to like 75-90 will accomplish getting it heads up with SB if raiser indeed has nothing. Then you can play with position against SB. If raiser raises you, fold. If she calls, we play super cautiously from here on out. I'd assume we are beat a decent amount of the time if she continues.

He is capable of leading with sets, although I would expect it more often on a more drawy type board. I don’t think he will show up with QQ-AA much, if at all.
 

Rhodeman77

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This feels like Jacks on Jacks crime! :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

everyone looks for a clean flop with them before betting. Got a good flop and you still get bet into!
 

DrStrange

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Way too fast. The original post was less than an hour ago. Better than not asking about the preflop, but more time to get more lookers would deliver more opinions.

I would not 3-bet a villain who is described as " doesn’t raise much pre " and even so, raises preflop. I am fearful her range might be JJ+, AK where JJ plays poorly.

This looks like a fine place to set mine. Let's do that. We are almost certain this play is +EV. Hero's position sucks.

Flop: This is a fold for me. Hero was set mining, missed and now is caught between a rock and a {sticky} hard place. Yes, yes I know this is nitty. It is fine, I know how much the rest of this hand is going to hurt. Hero has a whole lot of chips to lose, Let's not do that.

DrStrange
 

Eriks

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@DrStrange sorry about rushing it. I’m too bored here. Will wait a while before moving on further
 

BGinGA

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For just 3% of my stack, I'm calling here (with what very well may be the best hand) to see a) what the pre-flop raiser does when donked-bet (if truely sticky, she's probably just calling), and b) what the turn brings. Likely folding to a re-raise by the hijack, but I think that's far from a guaranteed prediction.
 

Eriks

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I did end up calling sb’s lead with the intention of folding to a raise from original raiser or procede really carefully if she called. Thankfully she was not sticky this time and decided to muck.

I think the flop could be played either way, a case can be made for folding, calling and raising. Although I’m not a huge fan of raising as it turns my hand into a bluff against hijack and really narrows the range sb can continue with as there are no draws available. Maybe there is value in getting hijack to fold overcards but it seems to me it’s the worse option.

Anyway we’re heads-up and see a turn:

:2c: :5d::9s::3h: Pot: 102

Sb bets 75. Hero?
 

Rhodeman77

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Fold.

Most likely against a small set. Like you said this board is very dry and he is betting so he isn’t semi-bluffing a big draw.

This is why a preflop raise would have been better. It chases out the small pocket pairs.
 

JustinInMN

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I bump it to 46, but would consider a fold if I got re-raised...


Are you crazy? 47 is obviously the right number :p. Jk, I think a 3 bet here is generally superior, but the flat does let hero play pot control. I really only like the flat pre if I am flatting everything in this spot, including AA. Otherwise hero's 3 bet range gets too narrow and tough to get value later in the hand.


:2c::5d::9s: Pot: 42

Sb now leads for 30. Action?

I think I would go ahead and put in a raise here just to see if hero can fold out the weaker c-bets. Even k-hi villain holdings are drawing fairly live here. If hero flats here, hero is going down the path of flatting until the river unless it's a really bad run-out.

Anyway we’re heads-up and see a turn:

:2c: :5d::9s::3h: Pot: 102

Sb bets 75. Hero?

I think hero calls again, hero is too far down the road of playing this to bluff catch, raising is really hoping villain somehow has one pair nines (unlikely) or maybe tens and can pay off a raise. If hero didn't raise the flop for protection, there isn't much reason to raise the turn either, he is going to fold anything hero beats and at least call with the bigger overpairs.
 

BGinGA

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I did end up calling sb’s lead with the intention of folding to a raise from original raiser or procede really carefully if she called. Thankfully she was not sticky this time and decided to muck.

I think the flop could be played either way, a case can be made for folding, calling and raising. Although I’m not a huge fan of raising as it turns my hand into a bluff against hijack and really narrows the range sb can continue with as there are no draws available. Maybe there is value in getting hijack to fold overcards but it seems to me it’s the worse option.

Anyway we’re heads-up and see a turn:

:2c: :5d::9s::3h: Pot: 102

Sb bets 75. Hero?
I'm at the very least calling, and thinking hard about raising big, right now.

I see lots of single-pair hands in villain's range here, and donk-betting them on the low flop while figuring the other two hands missed -- A9, A5, A2, K9s, Q9s, J9s, T9s, 98s, TT, 88, 77, 66. He got one fold on the flop, and is trying a second time on the turn to take it down, (you showed no aggression pre- or post-flop), and the turn 3 was unlikely to have helped you.

With a couple of draws now out there (plus his two-pair and set draws), I'm raising to $300. If he has us already beat with A4, 99, 55, or 22, let's find out now. I don't wanna face a river bet after an A, K, Q, T, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, or 2 hits the board without him first paying to see it (any one of which may improve his hand to beat us).
 

Eriks

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I'm at the very least calling, and thinking hard about raising big, right now.

I see lots of single-pair hands in villain's range here, and donk-betting them on the low flop while figuring the other two hands missed -- A9, A5, A2, K9s, Q9s, J9s, T9s, 98s, TT, 88, 77, 66. He got one fold on the flop, and is trying a second time on the turn to take it down, (you showed no aggression pre- or post-flop), and the turn 3 was unlikely to have helped you.

With a couple of draws now out there (plus his two-pair and set draws), I'm raising to $300. If he has us already beat with A4, 99, 55, or 22, let's find out now. I don't wanna face a river bet after an A, K, Q, T, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, or 2 hits the board without him first paying to see it (any one of which may improve his hand to beat us).

This was partly my thoughts as well. I was not ready to concede the pot yet. I don’t feel a raise is good against this player though as I believe he would fold any worse hand he’s betting for value. Perhaps there’s value in ending the hand now, I don’t know, I rarely take such lines.

I called the 75 and we saw a river:

:2c: :5d::9s::3h::kc: Pot: 252

He thinks for 10-15 seconds before betting 200. Hero?
 

Trihonda

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I’m lm sticky, but am leaning towards a fold. I think this hits Villains range much better. The pause before betting normal for this player? Is there any read you gain from it? My thoughts are it’s them trying to decide how much they can get out of you.
 

JustinInMN

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Boy that pause I usually read for strength and this is a bad river card.

If I think that applies to this villian, I think I am going let this be a fold.

As hero, we played this carefully so we had the chance to escape on an overcard if we are ahead.

Would have been cheaper to get his info on the flop in retrospect.

I really can only justify a call as a bluff catch, but that pause I usually read for strength. Like he just hit KK or K9. The only things we still beat are TT and A9, (and other 9x but how many of those are preflop raises, and going for value at this river?)
 

Legend5555

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I think you just have to give the guy credit and fold. Is he the kind of player, like many less skilled players, that wouldn't bet when overs come with just flop TP? If so, you just can't call with almost anything here that's not a set or straight. Most people just don't value bet 1 pair for 3 streets.
 

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Sometimes, he has TT here... but most of the time, I think he has us beat. I'm folding... It does seem like an awfully big value bet though.
 

Eriks

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I’m lm sticky, but am leaning towards a fold. I think this hits Villains range much better. The pause before betting normal for this player? Is there any read you gain from it? My thoughts are it’s them trying to decide how much they can get out of you.
Not really getting much of a timing tell. I’ve seen him do it with both value and bluffs.
 
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