PAHWM: Another KJs hand

boltonguy

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Just played this hand online and thought about the other KJs thread.

25NL 6-max anonymous fast fold. No reads, no HUDs.
Villain in UTG is effective stack with $16. UTG limps $0.25
Folds to Hero in SB with :kc::jc:

Hero?
 
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Legend5555

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Punish the limper!

214.jpg
 

power13

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I am thinking that 25NL Zoom is not actually low stakes - there are sharks in these waters and we have no player reads. An UTG open even 6 max in this game is going to be a fairly strong range and you will be OOP for the whole hand. If you are coming in, I agree it should be for a raise. But personally I would be folding here. Admittedly I get nitty when I’m playing in an environment where there are probably a number of better players than me, especially with bad position.

EDIT didn’t realize it was a limp. I like a raise of 4x to account for the limper and our poor position. Hoping to take it down now and proceeding cautiously on the flop. Folding to a 3B from BB or a limp reraise from villain.
 

boltonguy

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Yes there are definitely sharks and there are minnows. The tables are completely anonymous so all you see is six seats, a stack and a seat number, 1 through 6. So it can be challenging to figure out what you're dealing with. Default is to assume reg and fairly face up play: the population tends to be aggressive pre and value-heavy / bluff-light especially when betting big on turns and rivers. There is also a small percentage of crazy stuff around the edges because its anonymous - people run some sick stuff that they would never do if the behavior "stuck" to them across hands & sessions and they could be exploited.

Limps are regularly punished. Heck, flatting an open is often subject to a squeeze from the blinds. 80%+ of pots are heads up on the flop as a result. I mostly play 3bet or fold from HJ, CO and SB.

Topping up a stack is a button click so sitting with $16 when a buy-in is $25 suggests minnow to start. Limping UTG is another minnow sign IMHO.
 

boltonguy

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Here's an example of some of the garbage you see - very small statistical sample - this one is with KJo to keep with the theme:

Ignition - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN (BTN): 120.92 BB
SB (SB): 49.6 BB
Hero (BB): 150.36 BB
UTG (UTG): 99 BB
MP (MP): 54.08 BB
CO (CO): 96.08 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Dealt to Hero: :jc::ks:

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop (6 BB, 2 players): :5h::9c::6c:

SB bets 2.88 BB, Hero calls 2.88 BB

Turn (11.76 BB, 2 players): :qs:

SB checks, Hero bets 8.4 BB, SB raises to 43.72 BB and is all-in, fold

SB wins 27.16 BB


Turns out that SB had :jd::7s: (you can download hole cards after 24 hours).
Sure his jam makes no sense but I cant call with only a gutshot ...
 

boltonguy

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25NL 6-max anonymous fast fold. No reads, no HUDs.
Villain in UTG is effective stack with $16. UTG limps $0.25
Folds to Hero in SB with :kc::jc:

Hero raises to $1. BB folds. Villain re-raises to $1.75.

Hero?
 

Legend5555

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25NL 6-max anonymous fast fold. No reads, no HUDs.
Villain in UTG is effective stack with $16. UTG limps $0.25
Folds to Hero in SB with :kc::jc:

Hero raises to $1. BB folds. Villain re-raises to $1.75.

Hero?
Lol. Oh good old Ignition/Bovada. Pretty easy call. 4 betting is just silly. Keep pot small OOP with a good suited broadway. Hope to flop good and punish his insolence.
 

JustinInMN

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Lol. Oh good old Ignition/Bovada. Pretty easy call. 4 betting is just silly. Keep pot small OOP with a good suited broadway. Hope to flop good and punish his insolence.

I agree with this, and part of what sucks about anonymous games. With a read, you might go for a stiff four bet here.
 

boltonguy

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Hero considers the attributes of :jc::kc::
  1. It often makes a dominated top pair with the :kc:
  2. It often makes a dominated middle pair with the :jc:
  3. It often makes the second nut straight
  4. It often makes the second nut flush
  5. It often makes two pair on a draw-heavy, scary board
With all that going for us, Hero flats the raise. Villain's sizing seems fishy.

Pot is $3.75. Hero is in BB with :jc::kc:. Villain is in UTG with effective stack of $14.25.
Flop comes :js::7h::6s:.

Hero?
 
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JustinInMN

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Pot is $3.75. Hero is in BB with :jc::kc:. Villain is in UTG with effective stack of $14.25.
Flop comes :js::7h::6s:.

I'm inclined to check, there are some bad turns, but not a lot, so if you are in the lead you won't be outdrawn that often. For this stack depth, and conceding the initiative preflop, my standard play is probably to check and plan to either call or shove on a bet. Hero could bet this also and evaluate all options. Bet-fold may have some merit, bet-call-a-raise may have some merit too. This is the struggle with anonymous games. History plays a huge part in making the right decision here, you are just guessing on frequency to figure out the right thing to do.
 

Legend5555

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From just a general GTO sense, pretty standard check call any reasonable bet. You can't really have 66 or 77 or the overpairs that often here. So your range here is basically top pair, overs, big flush draws, and possibly top set. I can't imagine you have many straight draws here.

And I also don't think your opponent would care about any of this given his line seems to indicate he is a bit fishy.
 

power13

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Check calling here with plan to check call most turns. Kind of like a spade falling and calling the turn since it will likely kill river action and I'm not looking to play a big pot. I am probably folding the river if he bets 3 streets. Though the 3b was small, a limp raise utg is suspicious and I can't fully discount an overpair here.
 

boltonguy

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Hero thinks Villain's range is wide and that he's a fishy player here, and believes that he is ahead with effectively TPTK - 0% likelihood that Villain plays AJ this way IMHO. In fact I think Villain's range here is extremely condensed. As played he should never have an over pair, JJ or AJ. And not seeing junk raising. Now if he had limp raised to 4x it would be AA 90%+ of the time but the limp-min click isnt showing strength to me. I think a limp/calling range in this game often has 66 down to 22, A7o-, suited and offsuit broadways like KJ/QJ/JT & low suited connectors.

So other than 66 or 67s (total of 5 combos), I should be ahead and I do want some protection from an A / Q or other bad turns that complete spades or straighten the board as quite a few draws are out there. Even if I add 77 to his range we're only at 8 combos out of maybe 200 in his range.

So given my perceived odds of being way ahead, need for protection against many ugly turns and a fishy read based on stack size and pre-flop action, I bet 3/4 pot.

Villain jams his remaining $14.25.

Hero?
 

Legend5555

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I've made exploitative folds in spots like this before. I think in fast fold it is generally correct to just assume people have it when they do stuff like this. Sure, he could be a total fish, or steaming, or whatever. But it's at worst a small mistake.

I've seen more than a handful of people play AA and KK like this. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you had checked and he still jammed.

Now from a GTO perspective, you are probably are supposed to call here more often than not. So all in all, I'm kind of indifferent to calling and folding. But I might lean a bit toward a fold based on my experience.
 

power13

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Yes this could be a total bluff with anything. Of more logical hands, would he really take this line with QJs or JTs? His semi-bluffs are spades and 89s. I continue to think he could have the strong hands in his range and this is a huge bet to call with top pair good kicker. If you had reads it would be one thing, but with anonymity I feel like you can only put so much stock in the fact that he limped to draw conclusions about him. He limp-reraised you and then jammed on you when you donked into him. This is an indication of strength, so I'm folding.
 

boltonguy

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So Hero is usually folding to jams in Zone absent the effective nuts because most often we are beat.
However here I think we have the effective nuts for all the reasons above.

Hero calls and Villain shows :7s::8s:. Hero gets lucky and holds on this coin flip! The power of :jc::kc:!
 
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