PAHWM: $500NLH (1 Viewer)

chipsncoffee

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Hey all. It's been a bit since I've done one of these, and this was kind of an interesting hand for me, so I thought I'd share it here.

Info we have on Villain so far: we don't have a huge sample size as they've only been at the table for 41 hands, but enough to see how they're generally playing. Villain is playing pretty loose and SUPER aggressive. They are C-betting 100% of hands and raising just over 80% of every C-bet both IP and OOP. We haven't seen Villain showdown any real hands yet. Any money Villain is making is based purely on aggression and not getting to showdown. Villain has not folded to a 3-bet yet out of the 3 times it has taken place.

We're playing a 6-max online cash game and it folds around to Villain in the CO who raises to $12.50. Button and SB fold and Hero has :ah::js:.

Villain is the effective stack with ~$585.

Hero's play?
 

Kain8

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We're out of position so I'm happy to flat here and keep our hand disguised. If we 3-bet and the board whiffs for us from a range perspective :8d::3c::2h: for example we're just having to fold up shop. If we flop even somewhat well, we'll be able to exploit the villain's aggression.
 
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LotsOfChips

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Hey all. It's been a bit since I've done one of these, and this was kind of an interesting hand for me, so I thought I'd share it here.

Info we have on Villain so far: we don't have a huge sample size as they've only been at the table for 41 hands, but enough to see how they're generally playing. Villain is playing pretty loose and SUPER aggressive. They are C-betting 100% of hands and raising just over 80% of every C-bet both IP and OOP. We haven't seen Villain showdown any real hands yet. Any money Villain is making is based purely on aggression and not getting to showdown. Villain has not folded to a 3-bet yet out of the 3 times it has taken place.

We're playing a 6-max online cash game and it folds around to Villain in the CO who raises to $12.50. Button and SB fold and Hero has :ah::js:.

Villain is the effective stack with ~$585.

Hero's play?
I'm assuming that you are BB, and only the two of you left.

Caveat - I'm not an advanced player, so my feedback is pretty low value.

I'm calling. He's not folding to your raise, and if you miss the flop, being OOP sucks. Hope that you hit the flop hard and let the SUPER aggressive CO play into you. If he's C-Betting 100% and raising 80%, he will put his money in without much effort on your part. Be aware that he could have any two cards, so a missed flop for you could hit him, putting you behind.

The other option is to go in guns blazing, but you will have to take an aggressive stance for at least the flop and turn, and possibly even to the river. May win you a fair size pot, but may cost you a lot of money.
 

Eriks

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I agree with the previous posters that oop will suck against this player. Yes, AJo will be miles ahead of his opening range and he might call with plenty worse but 41 hands and 3 3-bet situations isn’t a big sample. CO vs btn I’m 3-betting this all day but here I think it’s best to flat and try to keep the pot small, flop an ace or a jack, buckle up and call this sucker down.
 

DrStrange

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No doubt people know by now how I feel about playing OOP. It sucks. Why volunteer to pay money and do this without good cause?

AJo is roughly a tenth percentile hand. It is subject to reverse implied odds risks. I.e. Hero generally wins smaller pots than he loses. Hero is out of position, but he likely has the best hand. We are playing just over 100bb effective.

I am not inclined to play the hand for stacks holding ace high. Ace high has a fighting chance to win against the most extreme versions of this villain. But the sample size is 41 hands or seven orbits or perhaps an hour of table time. Let's not get too attached to our post flop reads.

I think calling is best, followed by folding. 3-betting makes Hero decide what to do on the flop when he misses - the most common outcome. The raise is small, only 1.5bb. Let see if we can hit the flop.

I advocate playing fit/fold. Yes villain is going to get me to fold a winning ace high sort of hand when we miss. It was only a $7.50 investment. Hero will gut this sort of player if he can be patient.

call > fold > 3-bet -=- DrStrange
 

JustinInMN

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I also favor a flat here, but I actually think it's close between a flat and a raise.

I like calling the best because I do think calling is the best tactic against a probable steal raise unless I have a read that the raise doesn't defend steals.

Absent that, I am content to play small ball here with a hand that's considerably stronger than my average calling hand here and keeping all options open based on reads open in general.

I think folding a hand this high doesn't make sense and just invites more steal raises.

So in general call, but I am open to going for a stiff 3-bet against high frequency stealers here.
 

upNdown

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I’m calling. And unless I catch something, I’m check calling this SOB all the way. Let’s see what he’s betting. It’s only one buyin.
Alternatively, you can find a new table where there’s nobody agressive, pushing people around.
 

chipsncoffee

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So, Hero opts to flat instead of 3-betting AJo OOP against such a n aggressive player. My line of thinking here was that Villain will do all the betting for me on every street if I make a hand, but I'm also not trying to bloat the pot with this hand. AJ is tricky.

Pot is $27.50 and we see a flop of :2c::ad::7h:. Pretty perfect flop for our hand.

I would ask if Hero should lead or check here, but it makes zero sense to lead against such an aggressive Villain, so we check. Villain bets $9.

I'm interested to know what you all think of Villain's 33% pot-sized bet and how we continue here.
 

JustinInMN

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This is interesting because as a point of personal strategy, this is a situation where I often check 100% of my range and in this case against this particular opponent I would checking intending to raise. (and probably leading on most turns).

If that isn't your strategy. I think checking or betting are on the table.
 

Frogzilla

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Decent squeeze pre, 3-bet to $40

flop, check/call is fine, raise small if you want to get a little tricky
 

kmccormick100

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Preflop I’m usually 3betting AJ if hero has a super wide range. That said, the lower variance route is totally fine against a maniacal villain, but if you catch any part of the pot you’re going to have to prepare to call 3 streets against barrels and potentially win a huge pot.

As played, you should never be donk betting an Ace hi flop against the PFR, it hits his range much harder than yours as he should have all the AA, AK, AQ in his range since you haven’t defined it any further by 3betting pre. Check raising is also equally as bad in my mind, given the above range advantage and the fact that that is about the least connected board with zero draws available to represent. I’m check calling here and expecting to call all the way down.
 

Legend5555

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Preflop:

I'd flat. Though if anyone had called between, I'd 3-bet. When there is dead money in the pot there is incentive to win it now or get it heads up. If I was in position and his pfr% is high, I'd 3-bet with AJo a high % of the time.

Flop:

Villain is likely betting 100% of his range in this board. Since his range is so wide, no reason to raise as it's hard to imagine worse calling. And say AT or AXs calls, you aren't going to get multiple streets anyway. But you may be able to get opponent to barrel off if he picks up equity with a draw on the turn. Or get him to mildly value own himself with a worse A. We shouldn't be looking to play a big pot OOP with AJo.

Edit: bad swipe typing
 
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JustinInMN

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Preflop I’m usually 3betting AJ if hero has a super wide range. That said, the lower variance route is totally fine against a maniacal villain, but if you catch any part of the pot you’re going to have to prepare to call 3 streets against barrels and potentially win a huge pot.

Don't threaten me with a good time!
 

chipsncoffee

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On we go!

So, Villain had bet $9 into $27.50, which is fairly common once you move up from $200NLH, although I've started to see a trickle-down effect into those stakes as well. I understand the merits of such a small bet as it can polarize your range well for very cheap.

Hero elects to just flat, but not because we're worried about what Villain holds, but because, generally, a large turn bet is coming after the small flop bet gets called, especially if Villain is bluffing. Pot is $45.50.

The turn brings the :jc:. Hero now has top two.

Should we lead against Villain? If we check and Villain bets, do we consider a check-raise? What's our plan for this street?
 

DrStrange

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I agree, this villain is a prime candidate to value own himself. Check/call turn, check/raise most rivers. Maybe all rivers.

Think of this like trying to land a big fish. You pull too hard on the line and the bass slips off the hook. Hero needs a tender touch. You don't really set the hook until the very end.

DrStrange
 

chipsncoffee

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So Hero decides to check top two and see if Villain will potentially hang themselves. Villain bets $30 into $45.50. Do we move in for the raise here, or flat and hope that Villain will fire a third barrel on the river?
 

LotsOfChips

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Flush draw and straight draw just became possible. Call. Hope for a scary card (completing the possible draws) on the river. Jam on the river no matter what comes up. If it's a scare card, he may think you are bluffing with air. If it's not a scare card, he'll probably still call.
 

chipsncoffee

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Flush draw and straight draw just became possible. Call. Hope for a scary card (completing the possible draws) on the river. Jam on the river no matter what comes up. If it's a scare card, he may think you are bluffing with air. If it's not a scare card, he'll probably still call.

With a Villain as aggressive as this one, I can’t say that I agree with your approach. It’s pretty hard to put him on a range of hands, and jamming any river may cause us to fold out potential value we could get from a third barrel made by them.
 

LotsOfChips

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With a Villain as aggressive as this one, I can’t say that I agree with your approach. It’s pretty hard to put him on a range of hands, and jamming any river may cause us to fold out potential value we could get from a third barrel made by them.
True, he may fold out to a river jam, but sometimes with super aggro players, ego will require him to respond with a call. If you check to him on the river, he may bet, but he may also decide that two barrels was enough, and check down thinking that you must have something in order to have stuck around that long. You have played with him for a bit, so you probably have some sort of inkling how he might respond to either a river jam or a river check.

The other option I suppose is to lead out on the river with a 1/2-2/3 pot bet. If he is as aggro as you believe, then he would likely raise you back, allowing you to three-bet jam.

As mentioned before, I'm not an advanced player, so I look forward to other opinions on the best way to play this. I learn a lot by reading the various suggestions (especially when the good Doctor is weighing in).
 
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Legend5555

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I'm not too worried about the straight draws as they are all gutshots. The most likely realistic hands for him to barrel are broadway club hands, AcXc hands, 9cTc, 8cTc, AK, AQ, AJ, and the sets. All of these are going to likely call a raise in position.

If he has true air or is overplaying top pair, then it seems unlikely he will call here or a value bet on the river. Plus, I don't like the line of call turn, lead river. It just reeks too much of value.

Given the range that will call, and the fact that we need to build this pot up, I say raise. I'd probably make it $110-$130 to go. Given the stack depth behind, big draws will likely still call for implied odds. AK will likely call as well. This raise size essentially puts opponent into a spot where if they want to raise again it basically has to be all in. He may opt to do that with big draws because he should have plenty of fold equity. Of course he will also do it with sets. But we aren't going to fold top two here to a jam anyway.

Going to the river, it's a bit tricky if he calls. If the draws brick, then should we check to induce, or just fire for value? I'm leaving toward just betting for value, as our line looks strong enough I think even an aggressive opponent might just give up thinking his bluff gets called too often.

If the draw gets there, then we have to check and evaluate river. Though I guess you could bet/fold if you think opponent can basically never be bluffing on the river.
 

Legend5555

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Doesn't a check-raise on the turn emit the same or even stronger odor? Serious question, not criticism.
That's the problem of being OOP. Both lines look value heavy. But we can get called by draws on the turn. If we call and they brick and we lead river we get no value.
 

trever

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If we believe that villain is a true maniac who will bet the river with all his holdings, then i just call the turn and plan to check the river.

If we believe that villain will slow down on the river (value bets and a few bluffs only), then I'd advocate for a raise now.

I'm a money-now guy, so ho ahead and raise the turn.
 

chipsncoffee

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I feel this hand shows how bad it is to be OOP in a way a lot of people don't see.

Definitely. That’s the main reason for wanting to post this hand specifically. Not only is playing a hand OOP so much more difficult, but so is extracting value from your good hands. A linear (merged) range and history with an opponent is the best possible way to play OOP, and this Villain hasn’t been around long enough to see those types of things. Our hand is seriously under repped here, but Villain would have to know that something is up by now.
 
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