PAHWM: .50/1 July 13th

trever

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Since x-raise, check is already a pretty unusual line to take in this hand, to maximally confuse the villain, you might try open-folding.

If you like winning money, I'd suggest you bet. Definitely bet big, you might even want to overbet the pot.
 

Ben8257

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Bet the $25 we should have bet on the turn.
I read every single strategy thread. Tons of knowledge to learn even for a 20 year card player. Mostly I follow because i have never found @DrStrange to have anything less than amazing advice... with the second club on the turn, the gut shot straight draw. I agree with @Rhodeman77 no way Villan gets to see that river card for free! I am an extremely conservative player but pot sized bet there definitely seems like the correct move. Interested to see how this one pans out?
 

JustinInMN

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I really don't like his tiny bet on the flop, so let's see if he shows any initiative after this bet.

There was a time where these bets were often designed to lure opponents, but now and days "downbetting" is part of a strategy to keep flop ranges wide.

I really dislike the check on the turn, villain is automatically going to check behind with weak and strong hands alike.

As played I think you go for value here. I think most of villain's range is Ax here and you should price to collect a call from this sort of hand. I would stick to 15 or so, though I can see arguments for going for more. It's also possible 55 isn't the best hand here and you will have to decide what to do if facing a raise. With the queen on the river I am not so sure I 100% want to play for stacks here as I would on the turn. KJ and QQ are real possibilities given the line. AA is too. By the same token AQ is also in play as has AT (and maybe even the last combo of A5s), so checking river seems to be missing more value than justified for the few worrysome villain combos.
 

shorticus

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I’m not a fan of commenting on these strategy threads, but I definitely enjoy reading them and have gained tons of insight from them.

Based on the way this hand has played out as well as well as our assessment of the villain, I think the line here is easily check/call. I think we can eliminate certain hands in our villains range based our assessment of villain’s playing style. To me those hands are AA, AT, TT. Remaining hand ranges that could still be in play here are JJ-KK, Ax, KQ, and KJ.

Tough river card here. I’d find a better spot to get paid off.
 

MathijsVS

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I’m not a fan of commenting on these strategy threads, but I definitely enjoy reading them and have gained tons of insight from them.

Based on the way this hand has played out as well as well as our assessment of the villain, I think the line here is easily check/call. I think we can eliminate certain hands in our villains range based our assessment of villain’s playing style. To me those hands are AA, AT, TT. Remaining hand ranges that could still be in play here are JJ-KK, Ax, KQ, and KJ.

Tough river card here. I’d find a better spot to get paid off.

I'm not a big fan of check-call, since it gives us very little information about the villain.
If hero checks, Villain will more than likely bet, either for value or as a bluff. In effect, we give away initiative by just checking.
A more aggressive line here will at least give us some options, right?
 

shorticus

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I'm not a big fan of check-call, since it gives us very little information about the villain.
If hero checks, Villain will more than likely bet, either for value or as a bluff. In effect, we give away initiative by just checking.
A more aggressive line here will at least give us some options, right?

I’d say Check/Call will give us more information than we get from a blocker/value bet here (blocker bets are old school, I know). Check call minimizes any loss, but more importantly exposes the villains hand which to me has value right now.

That being said, for me check/call is the play here. I’m not opposed to a small bet here, but you’re OOP and can put yourself in a tough position where you’re facing a situation where you have to make a tough decision against a big reraise here with 3rd nuts (if you eliminate villains hand ranges). I don’t like the idea of putting myself in spots where I have to make those types of decisions.
 

MathijsVS

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Get with the times! This 39yo knows the "cool kid" plays.

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chipsncoffee

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I think we made a mistake by not betting the turn. If we’re going to check-raise the flop, we should be betting the turn to extract value and deny our opponent equity. If Villain did raise with AA, that’s just a cold deck, but if he was being stubborn with KK, QQ, or JJ, our turn bet is getting him to call with terrible odds. As played, I’m betting the river (probably about 80% pot).
 

Legend5555

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Home stretch...

Effective stack: $130

Folds around
VILLAIN (HJ) raises to $3.50
Folds around
HERO (BB) with :5s::5h: calls.

Pot: $7.50
Eff stack: $126.50
Flop: :5c: :ah: :ts:

I know we could debate about leading out, but it's just such a rare play and so non-standard that I'm going to skip ahead.

HERO checks.
VILLAIN bets $3.
HERO raises to $9.
VILLAIN calls.

Pot: $25.50
Eff stack: $117.50
Turn: :5c::ah::ts::6c:

HERO checks
Villain checks

Pot: $25.50
Eff stack: $117.50
Turn: :5c: :ah::ts::6c::qh:

HERO checks
VILLAIN bets $16.75

HERO?
 

MathijsVS

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Hero is being very timid :p

I'm at a loss to what I'd do in this situation, so I'm curious to see what others suggest as the best course of action :)
 

JustinInMN

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Well I guess hero should call. Re-raising here is really trying to target a pretty specific range, namely the aces up combos AQ, AT, and maybe the case A5s. I don't think villain ever shows up with QT (unless this TAG is closer to LAG with steal raising) or any other two pair combos. Villain can show up with TT, AA, unless hero can rule those out based on the turn action, KJ is a possibility here too. Villain c-bet, called the raise, got free card on the turn because hero checked and got there. QQ is a similar story.

A reraise on the river kind of sorts villain into only his stronger range and 55 really is in the middle of that, and hero is sure to get reraised by the best of that range, and hero is also granting villain the chance to fold the one pair Ax hands by raising.

So congratulations on basically turning a strong flop into a bluff catcher? I guess hero gets three bets of value this way, but two of them were for small amounts on the flop. Hero could have gotten four bets, the last two being for bigger amounts while forcing villain to bluff catch with what figures to be most of his range, the Ax one pair combos. If villain has it, then I guess this line saved hero money this time, but hero is probably missing value in the long run by playing turn and river so carefully/deceptively.

If hero raised the river and got paid by aces up, that's the best case scenario in how I see this hand ending. But that has to compensate from the amounts villain would call a simple lead on turn and river with Ax, and the amounts lost when villain 3 bets better sets and straights.
 

JustinInMN

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The one way to rule out KJ in villain's range is if he is tight enough to c-bet-fold to the check raise. If villain has been paying attention to the previous hands hero mentioned showing down, he probably isn't calling light. This is why I think Ax one pair or aces-up are the likely villain holdings, with respect to bigger sets being possible as well. Is a TAG villain capable of slow-playing monsters or is TAG guy sticking with aggression and going for max value? This might be a way to put villain on a cap of Aces-up, and maybe one pair aces since villain has played slowly on flop and turn.

Maybe 55 ranks better than I think above if hero can eliminate slow played possibilities. The trouble with checking the turn is that we as hero missed a data point that would be very helpful right now, aside from the value missed.
 

shorticus

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Based on the way this hand played through the turn, this is why I'm not a advocate for the bet on the river. If we bet and he raises, we are in a bind and are stuck with a tough decision against a TAG player. At least here, we can check/call. This may not be the most profitable line, but then again, this isn't the most profitable situation.
 

LotsOfChips

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I'm so confused by your turn action. You check-raised the flop (indicating great strength), then checked the turn (indicating weakness). Were you expecting him to bet into another possible check-raise here? He had pretty much no other play but to check behind, and thus he got a free river card to possibly complete the straight draw or otherwise hit his hand. Or were you hoping to get the free card here for yourself?

I would very much like to understand your reasoning here.
 

shorticus

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I'm so confused by your turn action. You check-raised the flop (indicating great strength), then checked the turn (indicating weakness). Were you expecting him to bet into another possible check-raise here? He had pretty much no other play but to check behind, and thus he got a free river card to possibly complete the straight draw or otherwise hit his hand. Or were you hoping to get the free card here for yourself?

I would very much like to understand your reasoning here.
These are literally my exact thoughts. I hadn't posted anything because I'm sure @Legend5555 has the following logic:
1. He had a strong read on said Villain that went completely left (highly unlikely) or
2. He is not the hero in this discussion (more likely).

As someone who reads strategy threads regularly, I honestly don't see @Legend5555 making this misstep. Waiting to hear his logic when he finishes the story.
 

Legend5555

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The finale

Effective stack: $130

Folds around
VILLAIN (HJ) raises to $3.50
Folds around
HERO (BB) with :5s::5h: calls.

Pot: $7.50
Eff stack: $126.50
Flop: :5c: :ah: :ts:

I know we could debate about leading out, but it's just such a rare play and so non-standard that I'm going to skip ahead.

HERO checks.
VILLAIN bets $3.
HERO raises to $9.
VILLAIN calls.

Pot: $25.50
Eff stack: $117.50
Turn: :5c::ah::ts::6c:

HERO checks
Villain checks

Pot: $25.50
Eff stack: $117.50
Turn: :5c: :ah::ts::6c::qh:

HERO checks
VILLAIN bets $16.75
HERO calls and wins.

I was the villain in this hand. And I was confused at showdown.

Can you piece together what I likely had?
 

Rhodeman77

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The finale

Effective stack: $130

Folds around
VILLAIN (HJ) raises to $3.50
Folds around
HERO (BB) with :5s::5h: calls.

Pot: $7.50
Eff stack: $126.50
Flop: :5c: :ah: :ts:

I know we could debate about leading out, but it's just such a rare play and so non-standard that I'm going to skip ahead.

HERO checks.
VILLAIN bets $3.
HERO raises to $9.
VILLAIN calls.

Pot: $25.50
Eff stack: $117.50
Turn: :5c::ah::ts::6c:

HERO checks
Villain checks

Pot: $25.50
Eff stack: $117.50
Turn: :5c: :ah::ts::6c::qh:

HERO checks
VILLAIN bets $16.75
HERO calls and wins.

I was the villain in this hand. And I was confused at showdown.

Can you piece together what I likely had?

most likely a big Ace. AK, AQ, AJ.

would you have called a $25 turn or river bet if it was made?

how much value did “Hero” miss out on with his set of 5’s?
 

LotsOfChips

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I was the villain in this hand. And I was confused at showdown.
I'm not surprised that you were confused. It was a pretty confusing line that he took.

Can you piece together what I likely had?

Probably not AcTc, as I might have expected a re-raise on the flop, or at least a bet on the turn. AcXc? AK?
 
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