PAHWM: .5/1 NLHE (1 Viewer)

Beakertwang

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This is a hand last night from Windy Crest. I was a bit tilty from being card dead for a long time (I doubled up first hand, then slowly donked off my stack, and was back to about even), and I feel like I made a couple smaller mistakes early, and I definitely made a huge mistake late in the hand.

With a couple exceptions, table is very loose passive preflop. It's not uncommon for players to limp call with anything from 26o to AQs. A $5 lead will often get 4 or 5 callers. 3 bets are rare, and usually mean QQ+ and possibly AK.

Hero and both villains are ~$100. MP is passive pre, and sticky post, but can get aggressive. I have no real experience with button

Hero is UTG with :qc::jc:, opens for $3. I do sometimes bet a open smaller from early position, but I typically open $4 or $5, plus extra for limpers. But I was frustrated getting 3 and 4 callers, and missing all my flops.

MP calls, Button calls, blinds fold.

Pot $10.50.

Flop :tc::8s::4h:

Action on hero.
 

DrStrange

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The preflop action matters. Often quite a lot. Here Hero was UTG and likely should have folded. What? Did you expect them to respect your raise?

That flop seems to favor the calling ranges of the villains more than Hero's UTG raise. Hero is likely to have a lot more ace high hands vs big pairs / top pairs.

This is no place for Hero to be firing off a c-bet. The villains are sticky and can be aggressive. Let's not compound Hero's preflop decision any further. Hero's gut shot, back door flush draw and over cards might be worth something, but it is hard to realize your value when out of position.

Fold pre-flop. Check / fold flop vs any significant bet. Maybe Hero could call a $2 bet or so.

First law when you are in a hole? Stop digging -=- DrStrange
 

Legend5555

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Against a single villain, you can argue for a bet here as there are a lot of good double barrel cards for you on the turn (Any Broadway, any club, and a 9). Against 2 villains that both have position though, that's a bit sketchy.

But as noted above, outside of overpairs, your range doesn't really smash this flop. If this had been you in the button and two out of position callers, then you could make a better case for c-betting and looking to double or triple barrel.

As is, check and evaluate. If you get a decent price, you can look to peel hoping to pick up equity or hit. But playing this way leaves you a bit at the mercy of the deck as you don't have any real believable bluffs should you pick up equity. So you will be playing relatively face up as you tag along for pot/implied odds. Because if you get a club or double gutter on turn, then hit river, you are pretty much forced to lead out on river (especially if you make the backdoor flush). Playing OOP makes getting value tough.
 

naked_eskimo

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My first thought (and I'm not very good at this, but I find that thinking about other people's hands is helpful in general for game improvement) was that QJ suited is not really in my UTG open range. Definitely in my middle and late position open range, but not UTG. The way you described these players, you could easily be betting into QT, JT, KT, or AT who will likely just flat you all the way to the river and if the board stays low and uncoordinated or a ten comes, you are going to either have to fold or do a crying call on the river if there is a raise. Even if you hit a Q there, the same thing would happen. Or another club comes on the turn and you feel more committed to seeing it through, only to hit and be shown Ax clubs, or Kx of clubs for an even bigger loss.

You do have a gutshot to the nuts, though.

Your game sounds exactly like my .50/$1 NLHE gang. Most of my players would flat behind with almost any hand that is ahead: KQ,AQ, even big pairs. 3 betting is rare. I find pots with any broadway cards tricky to navigate as my players will always play any two broadway cards in any position almost for any amount, and they will play them passively until the river.
 
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Kain8

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The open might be a little too loose, but I don't condemn it that harshly. Especially if you've been card dead, QJss looks pretty damn attractive to play regardless of position.

You're deep-ish with an SPR of almost 10. Aside from a full pot bet from one of the villains, I'm for sure peeling here. Gutshots in these type of games never get any credit when they come in, especially so if someone has a lone 7 or Jack when you complete your gutshot.

Check-call any single bet up to near the size of the pot. If you miss, oh well. But there are lots of ways to improve your equity against 2 seemingly random hands from your opponents.
 

boltonguy

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I have played Windy Crest a few times. Who were the villains? I don't have a problem opening this hand from UTG and at your sizing. At $3 you are going to get several callers. Going larger to $5 wont make a difference, but opening to $8+ may get you heads up.

V's calling range is pocket pairs 88 or 99-22, Ax suited, random suited cards up to 3 gapppers, offsuit broadway, Axo up to AJo, so very wide. I had my aces cracked at Windy Crest by a limp, 3 bet caller in MP holding 2Ts. Yes you read that right, 2Ts. This flop hits the callers ranges better than yours.

One question to ask is will better hands fold or worse hands call if you bet here? I think the answer to both is no.

Especially multi-way I would check/call depending on bet size (max 1/2 pot) with a gutshot, backdoor and two overs. But my guess is one of the villains bet 3/4 to pot …
 
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Beakertwang

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I have played Windy Crest a few times. Who were the villains?

You’ve played in the WC online games, or you’ve played there in person? I believe they are both part of the Elks Club games. MP was BrittQueen. I don’t remember the button, it was the only time I had seen him.

That said...

I don’t mind my open at all. If I get three bet, I pretty much know where I am, I can evaluate when the action gets back to me—east fold, or see a flop, and shut it down if I don’t smash it. If I do smash the flop, it’s pretty easy to get paid.

Hero is UTG with :qc::jc:, opens for $3.

MP calls, Button calls, blinds fold.

Pot $10.50.

Flop :tc::8s::4h:

Here’s where it goes off the rails. Hero leads for $4. Like I said, I was completely tilted, and I was just going to put money in the pot till my cards come. :D

MP calls, button raises to $16. Negligible chance of being back-raised by MP, so I call, hoping to catch more equity on the turn. MP calls.

Pot $58.50. Hero has ~$80.

Turn :6c:

Hero now has a flush draw, in addition to a gutter and two overs.
 

Kain8

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Your club outs are squeaky clean, same for all the nines. Now you're on the hook to call a decent bet from either villain.

An absolutely nutty line here would be to just open jam and maximize your fold equity, but that will only work against somewhat competent players.

With how underwhelming the adversaries are, I'd absolutely check-call if bet into for a reasonable price. Even more weight to put onto it is the MP has cold called two aggressive actions now on the flop. You can now flat the button's bet and even if the MP raises all-in and the button goes in too, you're essentially pot committed with a ton of outs.

Do you feel lucky punk?
 

naked_eskimo

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78c seems like something villain could have here. It seems like something some people would play in MP, and he was described by hero as sticky post and sometimes aggressive.
 

boltonguy

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Button could have X/R as a bluff or semi-bluff because the flop likely missed your range. Less likely as a pure bluff with MP in the hand.

So what are button's possible hands? I think we can discount premium hands AA - JJ, AK as he would likely have 3bet preflop.
So we have 44, 88, TT which are very strong and it would make sense for a set to X/R but there's no draw on the board and its not connected so why not get more value from a set. A call with a set is more likely to keep MP in the hand as well and build the pot. This doesn't necessarily look like a set. Again no draw so no NFD to X/R. All other hands that hit the board make pairs Tx, 8x, 4x but a X/R doesnt make sense for those hands either.
V could be on a straight draw as well with a pair. 78cc, 89cc, 9Tcc - these hands would make sense as a X/R.

So what is MP playing - she calls your cbet and the X/R as well. I would be concerned about this player. IMHO this is the player with the set.

With a FD, gutshot and two overs you have several outs against the set and any other one pair hands. 9 clubs, 4 nines = 13. You have pot odds to call a 50% bet.

If you check I think it is likely you will face a bet which may be bigger than 1/2 pot - you could block bet 1/3 - 1/2 pot to try and see a river at that price. If raised, fold.
 

Beakertwang

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So what are button's possible hands? I think we can discount premium hands AA - JJ, AK as he would likely have 3bet preflop.
You'd be surprised. Some of the villains could have everything from 74 suited to AA. :D
 

Beakertwang

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Action so far...
You’ve played in the WC online games, or you’ve played there in person? I believe they are both part of the Elks Club games. MP was BrittQueen. I don’t remember the button, it was the only time I had seen him.

That said...

I don’t mind my open at all. If I get three bet, I pretty much know where I am, I can evaluate when the action gets back to me—east fold, or see a flop, and shut it down if I don’t smash it. If I do smash the flop, it’s pretty easy to get paid.

Hero is UTG with :qc::jc:, opens for $3.

MP calls, Button calls, blinds fold.

Pot $10.50.

Flop :tc::8s::4h:

Here’s where it goes off the rails. Hero leads for $4. Like I said, I was completely tilted, and I was just going to put money in the pot till my cards come. :D

MP calls, button raises to $16. Negligible chance of being back-raised by MP, so I call, hoping to catch more equity on the turn. MP calls.

Pot $58.50. Hero has ~$80.

Turn :6c:

Hero now has a flush draw, in addition to a gutter and two overs.
I check, MP checks. Button bets $30.

Against top pair, I have 40% equity. 30 to win 89, perhaps 119 if MP comes along.
 

Frogzilla

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Windy crest “pro” here

easy open with the QJ clubbies, open to literally any thing

flop...ok this is tough. You have lots of equity but if you play it too big you might have a tough decision on Q/J turn. This deep I probably just check/call.

turn...as played my favorite line is a check/raise all in but depending on how milky the button is with his cbet, might let MP tag along and give us some baller odds With that combo draw
 

Beakertwang

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What day was this,I wanna pull the logs.
Sunday, sometime around 11:15 or so. I should have saved the history, so I could get all the particulars right. As I’m reconstructing the table, the main villain may have been in HJ or CO. Depends whether I was UTG or UTG1.
 

shorticus

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if i was the villain, i won by hitting my card on the river or bluffing you off the hand. Some things never change! :ROFL: :ROFLMAO: :ROFL: :ROFLMAO: :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 

Beakertwang

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Action so far—

Hero is UTG with :qc::jc:, opens for $3.

MP calls, Button calls, blinds fold.

Pot $10.50.

Flop :tc::8s::4h:

Here’s where it goes off the rails. Hero leads for $4. Like I said, I was completely tilted, and I was just going to put money in the pot till my cards come. :D

MP calls, button raises to $16. Negligible chance of being back-raised by MP, so I call, hoping to catch more equity on the turn. MP calls.

Pot $58.50. Hero has ~$80.

Turn :6c:

Hero now has a flush draw, in addition to a gutter and two overs.

I check, MP checks. Button bets $30.

Against top pair, I have 40% equity. 30 to win 89, perhaps 119 if MP comes along.

Hero decides to peel, planning on spiking the river and jamming. MP folds.

Pot $119. Hero $50.

River :6h:

In a daring act of bravery, hero displays his superior poker acumen by brilliantly jamming his last $50 into a pot of $120. After all, it’s the only way hero could possibly win the pot, since all his draws missed. Villain, obviously shaken, tanks for two, maybe two-and-a-half milliseconds before calling. Villain shows :Kc: :Td:.

Just goes to show that sometimes you can do everything right, and still lose.

:D :banghead: :bag:
 
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