PAHWM 4 handed Crazy Tuesday Night Fun Time (1 Viewer)

Chippy McChiperson

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4 handed (1 sitter), the game of choice this orbit (and for most of the evening) is .25/.50 6 card Omaha Hi Lo.

Seat 1 UTG ($819.25) Very aggressive very solid player. Has been known to occasionally go into spew mode when he's stuck, but when not he may be the best player in the group. He joined late after a couple people dropped out, and has quickly built his stack up from a $200 buyin.

Seat 2  sitting ($155.25)

Seat 3 Button ($1515.50) Hero, up from just a single buyin, running well with a couple coolers going his way so far.

Seat 5 SB ($407.50) Verrry aggreyessive. Stuck about 1K I think at this point, but he's able to either dust off another 1k or win 1k in the blink of an eye.

Seat 7 BB ($354.75) Solid TAG, stuck around a hundy.

UTG raises to $1.
Hero peels his virtual cards and sees
:qd::jd::ad::2s::qc::ah:.

What should we do?
 

JMC9389

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Pot/call to see a flop on just about any subsequent action. I don't like the third diamond but it's not the end of the world.
 

JustinInMN

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I assume two big pairs in 6 card is good, and having two of the aces is obvoiusly good. This is going to sound nitty, but in 5 card O8, dry A2 is somewhat overrated because most players will have counterfeit protection that leave the gate. I assume the effect is worse in 6 card O8. So this seems like we would almost be hoping for a high only pot with this hand, and not one where we improve with an ace because that means someone else is going to get a low where we are instantly counterfeit.

All of that said, it's 4 handed and this hand has good high potential, and even if it's not as scoopable as it seems at a glance, it's more than good enough to stick a 3rd bet here (pot!) and try and isolate.
 

Chippy McChiperson

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To recap, 4 handed .25/.50 6 card O-8.

UTG ($819.25) Raises to $1.

Hero ($1515.50) has :qd::jd::ad::2s::qc::ah:

On the button, especially short handed, I'll pot this all-day.

Hero raises to $3.75

SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls. 3 to a flop of:
:ac::ts::th:. $11.75 in the pot, SB and and UTG check it to us.

Our action?
 

JustinInMN

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Bet like 67-75% pot. $8 should do it
I agree. The upside to 6 card is that there are more Tx hands out there, and that one of the two case aces will be out there as well. It's hard to imagine anyone calling for high unless they have AT or TT though. However, betting to charge backdoor lows is a must in this spot as well. Hero then improves equity by either shrinking the field or growing the pot (hello out-of-context-thread) in case we only end up with half. You may not get action, and if you do, the downside of 6-card is that TT will probably be out a little more often than in the 4-card and 5-card versions.

But you have to bet to build the pot with the presumptive hi winner.
 

krafticus

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If you bet, I’d assume normal players, unless holding 1-2 tens would fold. If you find a player with 1 ten, they may come along. If you find a player with 2 tens, GG, rebuy. If you check and let a SF draw come in, that’s great, as long as it doesn’t complete on the river.

That being said, these aren’t normal players. I’d bet and bring some friends along for the ride.
 

Chippy McChiperson

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To recap, 4 handed .25/.50 6 card O-8.

UTG ($819.25) Raises to $1.

Hero ($1515.50) has :qd::jd::ad::2s::qc::ah:

On the button, especially short handed, I'll pot this all-day.

Hero raises to $3.75

SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls. 3 to a flop of:
:ac::ts::th:. $11.75 in the pot, SB and and UTG check it to us.

We decide to pot it, hoping to charge the maximum for anyone who may have a ten, or may want to chase a runner runner low.

SB folds, then UTG does the unexpected and repots to $47. What do we do?
 

JMC9389

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Hero has second nuts on a board where it needs to run out runner runner low for anything to be in play there.

I very suspiciously call and pot/jam any turn 9 or higher. If villain has 10's, GG. Cry in a corner for 5 minutes and rebuy.
 

Ben8257

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To recap, 4 handed .25/.50 6 card O-8.

UTG ($819.25) Raises to $1.

Hero ($1515.50) has :qd::jd::ad::2s::qc::ah:

On the button, especially short handed, I'll pot this all-day.

Hero raises to $3.75

SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls. 3 to a flop of:
:ac::ts::th:. $11.75 in the pot, SB and and UTG check it to us.

We decide to pot it, hoping to charge the maximum for anyone who may have a ten, or may want to chase a runner runner low.

SB folds, then UTG does the unexpected and repots to $47. What do we do?
It's going in either way Bill! Your super nitty buddy Ben says RE POT! Let's GO!!

I mean you are both very deep, he is on a crazy run... but really,both 10s? I gotta die on the Aces here.
 

JustinInMN

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So I am just going to point out here, it's going to cost about $454 to station this assuming hero calls flop ($30 more) and villain pots turn ($106) and river ($318). I don't think there is any more point in raising, villain is representing the nuts or AT. So it's going to cost $455 to win a possible $495 ($71 from the pot now plus $424 from villain if we're good.) So we have to decide now, are we good 46% of the time by the river with the 2nd nuts and heavily blocking any close finishers?

I normally mock the hero-folders in strat threads. But I think I can build a case for it here. Sounds like while hero's read indicates he can go in spew mode when stuck, that may not apply here. If he's a good player, he knows what he's representing.
 
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grebe

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To recap, 4 handed .25/.50 6 card O-8.

UTG ($819.25) Raises to $1.

Hero ($1515.50) has :qd::jd::ad::2s::qc::ah:

On the button, especially short handed, I'll pot this all-day.

Hero raises to $3.75

SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls. 3 to a flop of:
:ac::ts::th:. $11.75 in the pot, SB and and UTG check it to us.

We decide to pot it, hoping to charge the maximum for anyone who may have a ten, or may want to chase a runner runner low.

SB folds, then UTG does the unexpected and repots to $47. What do we do?
uh oh.

He can be doing this with some other hands besides the scary TT. AT...maybe a wrap and he wants to see if the boat is already there. Can't be folding, raising will fold out worse. Calling this down.
 

grebe

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Hero has second nuts on a board where it needs to run out runner runner low for anything to be in play there.

I very suspiciously call and pot/jam any turn 9 or higher. If villain has 10's, GG. Cry in a corner for 5 minutes and rebuy.
We are in position. We can call down here. I think betting from here on out will be -ev....unless we check/check turn then Villain checks river....in which case we can bet small for value hoping to get a call from the under full.
 

Chippy McChiperson

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To recap, 4 handed .25/.50 6 card O-8.

UTG ($819.25) Raises to $1.

Hero ($1515.50) has :qd::jd::ad::2s::qc::ah:

OHero raises to $3.75

SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls. 3 to a flop of:
:ac::ts::th:. $11.75 in the pot, SB and and UTG check it to us.

We pot, SB folds, then UTG repots to $47. What do we do?

At this point, alarm bells started going off. It's either AT or TT, and I don't have a backup low. If I repot here will I get action from AT, or only TT. I'm not so sure, so I decide to flat and see what develops.

Turn is the :5h:. Villain bets pot, which is $105.75.

Hero???
 

Highli99

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This card stinks. Now he may be drawing to a low but you can't make one. Plus his range on the high is pretty nutty. Ugggg. Hold nose and call. Pray for ace.
 

JustinInMN

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Turn is the :5h:. Villain bets pot, which is $105.75.

Hero???

Aces full is now reduced to a bluff catcher for possibly only half the pot. 23 of the 46 cards unaccounted for bring a low on the river.

If villain has value, I think we agree it has to be AT or TT, there are two ways for villain to have AT among the unknown cards and one way to have TT. So that's a point in favor of calling.

If villain has AT, from his perspective, he is blocking quads and there is one combo of AA out there. Does he think you are calling with some Tx here? If so, that's another point in favor of calling.

Does villain 3-bet flop with the second nuts or worse? I think he's smart enough to realize he has the second nuts and one combo of the nuts is possible. I think this becomes a point in favor of folding.

My every instinct is villain has it and is trying to get the max. I think hero should fold. But if hero calls here, hero will also have to call the river, nothing is going to change except catching the case ace.
 

Ben8257

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As they say at meet ups... "I didn't log all the way online to fold!"

I think Villan is holding damn near a wheel in hand and rando 10... just hit his boat and low draw... still could be A10 but 1010...nah

I have seen Matt Damon loose a lot more with second nuts and he still has some kind of career! Lol

He's not going away with a re pot, call baby call!! I understand we have no low but lots of 9s and higher left in that deck!
 
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grebe

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To recap, 4 handed .25/.50 6 card O-8.

UTG ($819.25) Raises to $1.

Hero ($1515.50) has :qd::jd::ad::2s::qc::ah:

OHero raises to $3.75

SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls. 3 to a flop of:
:ac::ts::th:. $11.75 in the pot, SB and and UTG check it to us.

We pot, SB folds, then UTG repots to $47. What do we do?

At this point, alarm bells started going off. It's either AT or TT, and I don't have a backup low. If I repot here will I get action from AT, or only TT. I'm not so sure, so I decide to flat and see what develops.

Turn is the :5h:. Villain bets pot, which is $105.75.

Hero???
call. Im not backing down here.

Of course, i have paid off quads more times than I can count in PLO.
 

chipchipchip

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Seat 1 UTG ($819.25) Very aggressive very solid player. Has been known to occasionally go into spew mode when he's stuck, but when not he may be the best player in the group. He joined late after a couple people dropped out, and has quickly built his stack up from a $200 buyin.
With this read, if this were high only I’d call for all the reasons @JustinInMN mentions above about AT feeling confident blocking quads and AA. But as it’s O8 and this turn gives us zero low equity, about half of the rivers will almost certainly leave us fighting for half the pot only. That feels really bad. First thought to fold in frustration here.

More thinking though… If we put him on either AT or TT + any low draw (and we don’t discount the AT combos at all) , we’re going to win the whole pot around 1/3 of the time, half of the pot around 1/3 of the time, and none of it 1/3 of the time.

Maybe that’s not quite right but as close as I’ll get off the top of my head. So I guess equity wise that makes us about a coinflip. We do have the benefit if seeing of the river makes a low before we call a river bet. Tough spot, especially super deep.

I think the edge is if we discount his AT combos at all (don’t think he’d play then this agro) it’san easy fold. If we’reconfident the ATs are live, call to see a river and call a bet if there’s no low. Fold river if there is.

*edit: posted too soon and finished the ending.
 

Chippy McChiperson

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To recap, 4 handed .25/.50 6 card O-8.

UTG ($819.25) Raises to $1.

Hero ($1515.50) has :qd::jd::ad::2s::qc::ah:

Hero raises to $3.75

SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls. 3 to a flop of:
:ac::ts::th:. $11.75 in the pot, SB and and UTG check it to us.

We pot, SB folds, then UTG repots to $47.

I decide to flat and see what develops.

Turn is the :5h:. Villain bets pot, which is $105.75.

Tough spot, but I think it’s still too early to fold. Villain could easily have AT with some low cards, I want to see a river and reevaluate.

River is the :kd:.

Villain pots bets pot, which is $317.25. He has $345.50 behind, Hero has him covered by about $600. Do we call? Raise?? Fold???
 

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