PAHWM 3-handed

SixSpeedFury

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I played this hand on Pokerrr2 last night and wanted to know if this was a good call, as I was put in a tough spot. The other two players who were busted out said it was a terrible call. I'd like to know your opinions and how you would've played it. On to the hand.

3 handed tournament. Cast of players:

Hero (BB): Solid player, playing ABC poker
Villain 1 (SB): Solid player, picks his spots
Villain 2 (BTN): Aggro player, will jam with pretty much any pair, draw or bluff

BB: 34,308
SB: 14,064
BTN: 9,628

Blinds are 400-800.

BTN limps, SB calls and Hero looks down at :6h::7h:. Check or raise?
 
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kmccormick100

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43bb, chip lead, hand doesn’t play great out of position, probably an easy check and dump it unless you flop a ton of equity. A case could be made for squeezing to 4-5bb trying to put pressure on the short stacks, but may be unnecessary risk with a mediocre drawing hand.
 

Mike Wells

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It's actually a pretty great hand when you're playing deep. I won my biggest pot ever with 67o against A2 and 44. got priced in to call a 3-bet playing super deep. flop came 345. Everyone shoveled all their chips in the middle and it held up. :cool
But I see little value in raising here. Not a hand I want to get in in with for stacks.
 

surfik

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Both actions are correct. What did you do?
In this moment does not matter how you play, more important how the villains persive your play. If you played ABC so far I would suggest raise trying to end hand pre flop, if one of them calls you may represent a lot of hands. Note that in case of 3 bet all in you have to call (at least BTN VILLAN).
What did you do?
 

Legend5555

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Button only has 12bb, are you going to raise to 3-4x then fold to a shove from the button? If so, you shouldn't be raising.

If the situation was you on the button first to act, then a min raise would seem fairly standard to me. But in this spot the shortest stack has already shown interest in the pot. Just check.
 

grebe

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check's good. Totally agree with above....if you arent going to call an all-in, let's see that flop.
 

SixSpeedFury

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So the general consensus is that we should check it down OOP with a marginal hand. Moving on.

BB: 34,308
SB: 14,064
BTN: 9,628

Blinds are 400-800.

BTN limps, SB calls and Hero looks down at :6h: :7h:. Hero checks.

Pot: 2,400

Flop comes :4h::th::7s:. SB checks, I bet 1,300. Button jams all-in for 9,628, SB jams as well for 13,664. Hero.......?

Pot: 23,292
 

Legend5555

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Fold. You are almost 100% beat by one of them and could easily be facing a better draw from one of them. Even if the bigger stack wins, you still have the chip lead. No reason to gamble here.
 

Beakertwang

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There’s ~25k in the pot. You’re behind, probably drawing thin. If you fold, at worst, you’ve got the chip lead against a good stack and a really short stack. At best, you’re heads up with with the lead.
 

BGinGA

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Fold. Somebody has a bigger pair (10s) and the other guy has a bigger flush draw. Fwiw, I would have checked the flop and saved 1300....
 

upNdown

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I'd call here too. If a heart comes along, the tournament is probably over. If not, you're playing heads-up, almost even. (Which I like better than 3-way anyway.)
 

Beakertwang

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I'd call here too. If a heart comes along, the tournament is probably over. If not, you're playing heads-up, almost even. (Which I like better than 3-way anyway.)
If hero loses, he’d be down 37k to 20k, assuming short stack is eliminated.
 

upNdown

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If hero loses, he’d be down 37k to 20k, assuming short stack is eliminated.
Right. And the other guy's got 23K.. Bring it!
(It's a bad call - I'm just saying what I'd do. And knowing me, I'd make that call. And hope for a single heart.)
 

Frogzilla

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Fold. Somebody has a bigger pair (10s) and the other guy has a bigger flush draw. Fwiw, I would have checked the flop and saved 1300....

Sometimes.

Sometimes you’re up against two flush draws and are absolutely crushing (your 47 doesn’t really block their hh range that hard). Sometimes you’re up against 0 flush draws and have got pretty good drawing odds
 

grebe

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Wow, awesome hand. I probably fold here, let those guys battle it out.

I would never say this is a terrible call though.
 

SixSpeedFury

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Interesting feedback so far. I will give it another hour or so for more responses then I will post my reasoning.
 

Legend5555

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I did some range math, and we do have the odds to call assuming button can have T7+, any two pair, any Ahxh, Broadway hearts, 77+, 44, and 89. And that the over shove is predominantly top pair, sets, two pair, nut flush draw, 8h9h.
 

Frogzilla

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I did some range math, and we do have the odds to call assuming button can have T7+, any two pair, any Ahxh, Broadway hearts, 77+, 44, and 89. And that the over shove is predominantly top pair, sets, two pair, nut flush draw, 8h9h.
Are you doin the calc on the 3-way pot? I’d assume we’re nearly flipping with the SB for the side so I ignored that one
 

Legend5555

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Are you doin the calc on the 3-way pot? I’d assume we’re nearly flipping with the SB for the side so I ignored that one
Yeah, it was 3-way. I know there is side pot stuff to consider, but it's not super consequential. I got like 39% with 6h7h against both villain ranges.
 

Frogzilla

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Yeah, it was 3-way. I know there is side pot stuff to consider, but it's not super consequential. I got like 39% with 6h7h against both villain ranges.

We only need like 28% so even with a lot tighter ranges it’s still a call. Not a horrible fold by any means but call is easily profitable. It also loses >60% of the time but that’s the rub with multi-way pots.

Thanks for crunching
 

BGinGA

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We only need like 28% so even with a lot tighter ranges it’s still a call. Not a horrible fold by any means but call is easily profitable. It also loses >60% of the time but that’s the rub with multi-way pots.

Thanks for crunching
Are you considering overall tournament equity, or just hand equity?
 

Frogzilla

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Are you considering overall tournament equity, or just hand equity?
The calcs were for hand equity but the tournament implications help hero here as he is covers the other two

Edit: this is not true
 
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SixSpeedFury

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BB: 34,308
SB: 14,064
BTN: 9,628

Blinds are 400-800.

BTN limps, SB calls and Hero looks down at
:6h:
:7h:
. Hero checks.

Pot: 2,400

Flop comes
:4h:
:th:
:7s:
. SB checks, I bet 1,300. Button jams all-in for 9,628, SB jams as well for 13,664. Hero.......?

Pot: 23,292

I have limited time to think (15 secs) as we were on a timer, so my thought was I have middle pair and a flush draw, button is a very aggro player who could have been jamming with pretty much any pair, draw or a bluff. SB is solid player, I put him on a set at best. My thinking is I have back door straight flush possibilites with a pair already on board and a flush draw. Counting my outs quickly I thought I was in the range of 12 outs. So mathematically I figured I had around 50% equity to win the hand. Effective pot total is ~25k, after all-ins my call would be for around 13.5k (slightly about 2 to 1). My thought also was if I lost, I would still have 20k in chips and still a decent stack to play with. But I also had a chance to knock out both players at one shot and win the tourney.

Now given this info, are you still in the fold or call camp?

I will post the finale later on.
 
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BGinGA

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The calcs were for hand equity but the tournament implications help hero here as he is covers the other two
Just because hero covers the other players does not imply that a given action is also +EV in tournament equity.
 

Frogzilla

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Just because hero covers the other players does not imply that a given action is also +EV in tournament equity.
That’s true. My thinking was because it’s the last three it hurts the shorties more, and it’s a zero sum, so must help hero. I can pop it into online ICM and Excel and I’ll report back. I’ll assume 50/30/20 of the remaining prize pool
 

Frogzilla

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That’s true. My thinking was because it’s the last three it hurts the shorties more, and it’s a zero sum, so must help hero. I can pop it into online ICM and Excel and I’ll report back. I’ll assume 50/30/20 of the remaining prize pool

I was wrong and you do need more equity vs range even as chip leader 3 handed. It’s 26.1% needed for chip EV and around 28.4% for tourney stack value. ICM is weird

I showed my work
4A8535DF-D164-40D9-A6BC-FF3876F7CED0.jpeg
 
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