PAHWM - 1/3 Home Game AKo in 4 way single raised pot (1 Viewer)

Legend5555

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I've started playing on a weekly basis in a local 1/3 game. Been doing well at the game and seen some familiar faces from 10+ years ago when I played more regularly.

1/3 NL (10% max $10 rake)
9 Handed

LJ is a early 50s male. Very loose pre. Raises a somewhat normal range, but limps a lot too. Aggressive post flop. Caught bluffing in 3 big hands tonight. Is in the game for $800.

HJ is a early to mid 60s male. He is a bit all over the place. Doesn't raise too much pre, but pretty loose. Doesn't fold any TP or draw post flop. In the game for $600. Has gone all in 3 times in the last orbit. Preflop flip against my AK with his QQ and he held. Another post flop with two pair. Once more with 66 against AK pre for about about a $400 pot.

SB late 20s early 30s male. Very typical 1/3 player. Limps a lot, only tends to raise real hands. Calls with basically any broadway pre. Been bleeding chips, but has also been all in a couple times to survive. Only bought in for $250.

Hero is the tightest player at the table. Only played 1 hand in the first hour (this coming hand occurred at about the 3 hour mark), but that first hand was a near double up with KK all in pre. Has been a in a few other hands 3 betting pre and making a couple thin value bets and winning small pots at showdown.

UTG folds
HERO is +1 with AhKs and raises to $15 (standard open). [$950]
LJ calls. [$600]
HJ calls. [$480]
SB calls. [$130]

Pot $57 (after rake)
Flop: :kd::9d::2s:

SB leads for $30.

HERO?
 

chipchipchip

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I feel like if $15 pre is getting called by three players is standard I’m opening for $20 or $25 here. I’m not usually worried about telegraphing my hand until someone demonstrates that it will matter.

As played I probably go $45-$50 on the flop. Then slow down or not on turns depending on board state and who calls.
 

ChipFinderSK

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I like a raise to commit the SB all-in. Maybe $75-80ish. If SB has you beat so be it.

If the HJ or LJ raises your raise, then you potentially have problems. Even flushes draws shouldn’t be raising your bet unless they are crazy loose, since you could have a set of Kings.
 

chipchipchip

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I feel like if $15 pre is getting called by three players is standard I’m opening for $20 or $25 here. I’m not usually worried about telegraphing my hand until someone demonstrates that it will matter.

As played I probably go $45-$50 on the flop. Then slow down or not on turns depending on board state and who calls.
Whoops, I misread this. I thought hero opened the flop for $30…. as is probably just shove. You just want everyone else to fold and this is your best shot at that.
 

Legend5555

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Whoops, I misread this. I thought hero opened the flop for $30…. as is probably just shove. You just want everyone else to fold and this is your best shot at that.
Shove? There are two people behind I'm over $450 deep with.
 

chipchipchip

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Shove? There are two people behind I'm over $450 deep with.
Yeah. But that’s just how this spot goes.

“Aggressive post flop. Caught bluffing in 3 big hands tonight. Is in the game for $800.”

“HJ is a early to mid 60s male. He is a bit all over the place. Doesn't raise too much pre, but pretty loose. Doesn't fold any TP or draw post flop. In the game for $600. Has gone all in 3 times in the last orbit.”

Get it in. None of the above screams “I’m way behind if someone shoves behind.” But we really don’t want that to happen so just try to take it down now or at least heads up for SB’s stack. Feels like a good spot to play this in a reasonably profitable spot that also makes you look like a maniac so when you play another hand two hours from now you get paid back then.
 

Eriks

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I would raise to $90-100 and probably not go anywhere if either of LJ/HJ 3-bets, with the player description above. I could find a fold if they somehow both go crazy though
 

Legend5555

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I would raise to $90-100 and probably not go anywhere if either of LJ/HJ 3-bets, with the player description above. I could find a fold if they somehow both go crazy though
Even with the description I've given, I'm not sold LJ goes crazy in a multiway pot. He's aggresive, but not totally reckless.
 

Eriks

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Even with the description I've given, I'm not sold LJ goes crazy in a multiway pot. He's aggresive, but not totally reckless.
Yeah, I’m not crazy about it, but call seems risky with all potential draws and raise/folds seems too weak. Tough spot
 

Kentucky

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I’m always suspicious of donk bets. I smell a draw naming its price. I’d agree with the $80-100 raise. I think we have the best hand (unless people don’t have a 3! Range in this game) so I’m happy to get the money in now and not too upset with callers behind. We might have to fade diamonds but we’re favorite to do so.
 

Legend5555

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Part 2

UTG folds
HERO is +1 with AhKs and raises to $15 (standard open). [$950]
LJ calls. [$600]
HJ calls. [$480]
SB calls. [$130]

Pot $57 (after rake)
Flop: :kd::9d::2s:

SB leads for $30.
HERO calls.
LJ calls.
HJ calls.

Pot: $173
Turn :kd::9d::2s::8h:

SB jams for $85.

HERO?
 

warma

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Huh. What are we scare of? 89? TJ? Doesn’t feel like a Diamond draw. Four people in the pot worries me, are they trying to thin the herd?
 

Taghkanic

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I would have put the SB all in for his remaining $85 ($115 total) on the flop, to isolate him when you are almost certainly ahead.

I say you are almost certainly ahead of SB because he didn’t reraise you pre, and you said he only really pushes premiums. So AA and KK and probably AK are out. Plus you said he is apt to play all Broadways passively pre, so his range is heavy with worse kings in his range (KQ, KJ, KT). With top/top here you don’t have to worry about an ace unless maybe it’s the Ad.

He can have some combo draws like AdJd, QdJd, JdTd, QdTd. But you’re blocking some of his straight draws with your ace, and it puts a lot of pressure on SB if you force him to a decision now.

Plus there is the value of isolating with two others still in your hand. Make it painful for them to come along. If someone flopped a junky two pair or set, so be it.

Once you get to the turn it’s a lot trickier since the two callers weren’t pushed out on the flop. The offsuit 8 is still not the worst turn, and some of what I said above still applies. But it’s going to be harder to push three people off or get called by worse now that the pot is bloated.

I would be tempted to reraise SB’s jam. If you don’t, the other two are getting a great price to chase a ton of draws to the river by calling the $85. You might also benefit from creating a side pot if SB really has a monster (but why would he play a set overly aggressively rather than trying to keep building the pot? Afraid of the flush draw?).

Another question is what it means that the other two players have just been calling. Seems draw heavy. And again, it seems useful to try to push them out and hopefully take their dead money plus the SB’s small stack.
 
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grebe

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I've started playing on a weekly basis in a local 1/3 game. Been doing well at the game and seen some familiar faces from 10+ years ago when I played more regularly.

1/3 NL (10% max $10 rake)
9 Handed

LJ is a early 50s male. Very loose pre. Raises a somewhat normal range, but limps a lot too. Aggressive post flop. Caught bluffing in 3 big hands tonight. Is in the game for $800.

HJ is a early to mid 60s male. He is a bit all over the place. Doesn't raise too much pre, but pretty loose. Doesn't fold any TP or draw post flop. In the game for $600. Has gone all in 3 times in the last orbit. Preflop flip against my AK with his QQ and he held. Another post flop with two pair. Once more with 66 against AK pre for about about a $400 pot.

SB late 20s early 30s male. Very typical 1/3 player. Limps a lot, only tends to raise real hands. Calls with basically any broadway pre. Been bleeding chips, but has also been all in a couple times to survive. Only bought in for $250.

Hero is the tightest player at the table. Only played 1 hand in the first hour (this coming hand occurred at about the 3 hour mark), but that first hand was a near double up with KK all in pre. Has been a in a few other hands 3 betting pre and making a couple thin value bets and winning small pots at showdown.

UTG folds
HERO is +1 with AhKs and raises to $15 (standard open). [$950]
LJ calls. [$600]
HJ calls. [$480]
SB calls. [$130]

Pot $57 (after rake)
Flop: :kd::9d::2s:

SB leads for $30.

HERO?
This seems like a "set my own price" with a draw. I probably call in game with plans to jam any safe turn.

I think a raise here is probably correct though.
 

grebe

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Part 2

UTG folds
HERO is +1 with AhKs and raises to $15 (standard open). [$950]
LJ calls. [$600]
HJ calls. [$480]
SB calls. [$130]

Pot $57 (after rake)
Flop: :kd::9d::2s:

SB leads for $30.
HERO calls.
LJ calls.
HJ calls.

Pot: $173
Turn :kd::9d::2s::8h:

SB jams for $85.

HERO?
Seems like a very standard call. Raising seems reckless, folding is nitty. Call.
 

grebe

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Those proclaiming all in on the flop are reckless. You are praying nobody flopped 2 pair or better with all your money. Heads up against sb, well sure. But there are two other players here with significant money behind. We have 1 pair and they have yet to act.
 

Taghkanic

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Those proclaiming all in on the flop are reckless. You are praying nobody flopped 2 pair or better with all your money. Heads up against sb, well sure. But there are two other players here with significant money behind. We have 1 pair and they have yet to act.

Put the small stack all-in on the flop, not yourself. SB is very short ($85).

If anyone calls, you play against them carefully the rest of the hand; SB is done.

If someone reraises your $115 then you can strongly consider dropping out. It’s not going to happen much. Just the price of doing business.

On every single hand, you could be up against a monster. The thing to realize is how frequently (i.e. infrequently) that happens, and try to recognize when an opponent has done so. If you assume it every time, you lose value from the many more times when you are ahead.
 

grebe

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Put the small stack all-in on the flop, not yourself. SB is very short ($85).

If anyone calls, you play against them carefully the rest of the hand; SB is done.

If someone reraises your $115 then you can strongly consider dropping out. It’s not going to happen much. Just the price of doing business.

On every single hand, you could be up against a monster. The thing to realize is how frequently (i.e. infrequently) that happens, and try to recognize when an opponent has done so. If you assume it every time, you lose value from the many more times when you are ahead.
I understand what you are saying, and I wasn't really saying you. Others were saying just jam it in. Jamming the flop would be a huge mistake. We get folds from hands we beat and calls from those that beat us.

Like I said earlier, this is probably a set your price bet by sb. The problem is, we have 2 behind yet to act, and I would like some info before committing. It's a tough spot.

I don't hate the 115 bet, but I am not in love with it, either. Can we do the same thing with a raise to 75? SB can't really fold, we get to see what our other opponents do, and we do it for less. I am not sure, spit balling...

We really need position here to make this easy, lol.
 

chipchipchip

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I just don’t see jamming the flop as a big mistake. Dude behind us has been all in three times this orbit. Granted, how he got all in three times is important, but with no other info I’m happy to jam here to a) get heads up with SB, b) let these guys behind to make a huge mistake, or lastly c) they flopped a set and we’re stacked oh well… in this spot out of position we’re bound to lose a lot if either of these guys behind us out flopped us anyway.

Maybe I’m just used to a wilder game than you guys, but stacking off with garbage in big multi-way pots is not all that unusual in games I’ve played at these stakes.
 

grebe

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I just don’t see jamming the flop as a big mistake. Dude behind us has been all in three times this orbit. Granted, how he got all in three times is important, but with no other info I’m happy to jam here to a) get heads up with SB, b) let these guys behind to make a huge mistake, or lastly c) they flopped a set and we’re stacked oh well… in this spot out of position we’re bound to lose a lot if either of these guys behind us out flopped us anyway.

Maybe I’m just used to a wilder game than you guys, but stacking off with garbage in big multi-way pots is not all that unusual in games I’ve played at these stakes.
Under normal circumstances.....

You are only getting folds from hands that are worse and only calls from hands that are better.

Your wild game may be different, but people that play like this in general lose big pots and win small pots.
i.e. they lose money.
 

JustinInMN

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1/3 NL (10% max $10 rake)
They better be playing with Level 8 CPC's, this hurt to read.

UTG folds
HERO is +1 with AhKs and raises to $15 (standard open). [$950]
LJ calls. [$600]
HJ calls. [$480]
SB calls. [$130]

Pot $57 (after rake)
Flop: :kd::9d::2s:

SB leads for $30.
I think I could get on board with a raise or a call here without knowing more about what SB would donk here. If hero is in the lead, he is very likely to be outdrawn. If behind, well hero is screwed, but the only hands I really see villain having would be 99 and 22 in this circumstance. Maybe K9 as well, but that's easier to outdraw than a set.

How often is villain donking diamond draws? The only pair and diamond draw combinations include :2d: so I find that sort of combo hand unlikely, would pretty much have to be :ad::2d: exactly. It's really :ad:, :kd: and maybe some :qd: or :jd: connectors that I could put villain on. And how much of that is he really donking versus check-calling?

How often is villain donking lesser kings? This would be the answer I would want to tip the decision to a raise because I would want to collect max from the KQ and KJ type holdings here.

I think the decision is close between call and raise. If you raise and plan to fold to a 3-bet, then I would just rather station 3 streets and showdown, personally.
 

JustinInMN

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Part 2

UTG folds
HERO is +1 with AhKs and raises to $15 (standard open). [$950]
LJ calls. [$600]
HJ calls. [$480]
SB calls. [$130]

Pot $57 (after rake)
Flop: :kd::9d::2s:

SB leads for $30.
HERO calls.
LJ calls.
HJ calls.

Pot: $173
Turn :kd::9d::2s::8h:

SB jams for $85.
Oops just saw this. Yeah I think call it off is pretty standard here. Getting 2-1, and I would assume KQ and KJ are in villian's range. You will probably be shown two-pair-plus at times as well, that's poker. The only way I would consider folding is if my read on Villian is that he's too tight to have KQ here preflop. The donk on the flop is unusual, but I don't think we know enough that it has to mean monster strength.
 

raynmanas

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SB leads for $30.
HERO calls.

i am interested in hearing the reasoning for this, maybe you need to wait until the hand has played out. but i don't like a call here at all, feels too cutesy trappy.
 

natumes

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i am interested in hearing the reasoning for this, maybe you need to wait until the hand has played out. but i don't like a call here at all, feels too cutesy trappy.
Same. I think a raise with the players behind makes much more sense. We want to isolate and play for SBs stack heads up. If either player behind calls or re-raises then we have a decision to worry about, but will also have more info to work with.

On the turn I don't think there is any play but call, the pot is bloated with all the calls from the flop and it doesn't feel like both players behind are going to fold at this point.
 

Legend5555

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They better be playing with Level 8 CPC's, this hurt to read.
Not many options in GA. Given that Cherokee is now at like $8-9 including the JP drop, and even most Vegas places are at $7, $10 can't be horrendous. Still beatable. Just annoying as secondary income and impossible if doing for any sort of primary income.
 

Legend5555

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Part 3

UTG folds
HERO is +1 with AhKs and raises to $15 (standard open). [$950]
LJ calls. [$600]
HJ calls. [$480]
SB calls. [$130]

Pot $57 (after rake)
Flop: :kd::9d::2s:

SB leads for $30.
HERO calls.
LJ calls.
HJ calls.

Pot: $173
Turn: :kd::9d::2s::8h:

SB jams for $85.
HERO calls.
LJ folds.
HJ jams for ~$340 more and says "I guess I'm all in again."

HERO?
 

Chippy McChiperson

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I think you’re likely ahead of SB and behind HJ. Just feels like an extremely strong hand, I hate narrowing down ranges to 1 particular hand but 99 makes a lot of sense here. I mean it could be something like JTdd, but why shove here since SB is already all-in? If HJ has a big draw, it doesn’t make sense for him to get any other potential money out of the hand when it won’t cost him any more to see the river.
 
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