Opinion on this ruling? (1 Viewer)

SHin

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We recently added a few rules in our home game to keep the action moving one of them is; if you're not at the table when action is on you, your hand is mucked.

As it is a new rule everyone has been taking the piss by auto-folding round to the absentee to force them to spend another blind.

Here's were the trouble starts. UTG min-raises and the table begins folding to the BB who is the absentee in this case, as it folds to the BB he still isn't seated and so I (the dealer) start to drag his cards over the betline towards the muck. Just before they reach the muck the BB returns see's that I am halfway through mucking his cards, runs to his seat reaches over to pull his cards back and proceeded to call.

UTG raises a point that the hand should already be over and BB can't play with an already mucked set of cards.
BB argues that seeing as his cards never touched the muck they're still in play.

They argue over it for a while until we put it to the table who all decide to let BB play the hand.

Was this the correct decision?

The reason this became a big deal in our group is that the BB flopped a straight and the UTG flopped top two-pair and proceeded to get knocked out of the tourney in 6th place. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 
I would always lean towards letting someone play a hand they were dealt. Sounds like he was at the table to declare he wanted to play before the cards had been mucked.

You now just need to keep this ruling consistent or further clarify how the rule will work (be enforced) in the future.
 
In a casino (or at least during a tournament) if you are not at your seat when the deal starts, your hand will be mucked. My home game plays a bit looser. We play similar to the rule you've implemented, except we announce to the absent player that he is up and we will be mucking his hand. If he comes back immedietely, or says... "on my way" or something to that affect we wait. Never more than a few seconds. Otherwise his hand is folded.
 
In a casino (or at least during a tournament) if you are not at your seat when the deal starts, your hand will be mucked. My home game plays a bit looser. We play similar to the rule you've implemented, except we announce to the absent player that he is up and we will be mucking his hand. If he comes back immedietely, or says... "on my way" or something to that affect we wait. Never more than a few seconds. Otherwise his hand is folded.
Pretty much this. In casinos, the dealer won't even put the cards in front of your empty chair - they'll just set them to the side and immediately muck them as the action begins.

In our home game, if the player is visible in the room then we will say something like 'Dave, action's on you' and give them a chance to return to the table real quick. Most of the time, players just say 'fold' from wherever they are but if they want to come back real quick, we allow it.
 
The exact reason we started this rule was because too many people were away from the table announcing they'll play the hand and forcing the game to a crawl to wait for them to grab a beer/pick their nose. I did stop moving to the muck when i saw him rushing to the table however.
 
Make it easy, change the rule to "If you're not sitting in your seat when you would otherwise be dealt your first card, you are not dealt in that hand."

No issue with the timing of the muck. When the deal starts, call out to missing players to let them know they need to be seated to get a hand.
 
In my opinion, you guys are being a bunch of dicks. This is a home game. Why the hell are you more interested in screwing each other out of a blind, than playing hands?
lmao.

Make it easy, change the rule to "If you're not sitting in your sit when you would otherwise be dealt your first card, you are not dealt in that hand."
Cheers, I think we'll go with this in any following tourney haha.
 
I too initiated a similar rule. Rules are important. They keep the game together. Creating and enforcing rules for the good of the game isn't being a dick, but ensures the longevity of the game. Guys at my table kept getting up and doing stuff between smoking, getting a beer, chatting, etc. That slows down the game, impairs the game play, and turns people off of playing even more. If your hand is that important sit your ass in the damn seat and play it. Don't make other people wait for you. That is BS. There is no whining at my table.

Muck it.

Edit: The only exception to this rule at my table is when the Uber Eats guy rings, the game waits for the food delivery deal to go down because that is outside of the control of the player. And arepas and tacos are important.
 
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We used to use the TDA rule that you had to be within reach of your chair when the last card was dealt.

To have a live hand, players must be at their seats when the last card is dealt to all players on the initial deal. Players not then at their seats may not look at their cards which are killed immediately. Their posted blinds and antes forfeit to the pot and an absent player dealt the stud bring-in card posts the bring-in. “At your seat” means in reach of your chair. This rule is not intended to encourage players to be out of their seats while in a hand.

Turns out is was just too restrictive for a home game. We changed it to if the player is not in the room his hand is dead and is mucked. If they are in the room we just let them know they have a hand. No hard feelings this way.
 
Your rule seems vague. You said at the table in one part and in his seat in the other. Which is it. It does matter, at least to me. It seems like you mean in his seat since he was trying to sit down so he could play it.

Whatever the rule is be consistent. It seems like he may have been at the table but not in his seat. With the ruling you made just make sure you are consistent from here on at. If they are at the table but not fully seated they get to play.

And seriously, how bad did it get that you had to implement this rule in a home game?
 
We used to use the TDA rule that you had to be within reach of your chair when the last card was dealt.

To have a live hand, players must be at their seats when the last card is dealt to all players on the initial deal. Players not then at their seats may not look at their cards which are killed immediately. Their posted blinds and antes forfeit to the pot and an absent player dealt the stud bring-in card posts the bring-in. “At your seat” means in reach of your chair. This rule is not intended to encourage players to be out of their seats while in a hand.

Turns out is was just too restrictive for a home game. We changed it to if the player is not in the room his hand is dead and is mucked. If they are in the room we just let them know they have a hand. No hard feelings this way.
aha my pal had just entered the kitchen when the hand was live which technically I guess is a different room as there are partition doors into the poker room but they were fully open so he had a full view of the table which is when he saw his hand being mucked.
 
if the ass isn't in the seat when the last card comes off the deck... dead hand. especially if you want to keep the game running. everyone knows that in a tourny no one is waiting. if its your big blind and you're not there, that is your fault.
 
Your rule seems vague. You said at the table in one part and in his seat in the other. Which is it. It does matter, at least to me. It seems like you mean in his seat since he was trying to sit down so he could play it.

Whatever the rule is be consistent. It seems like he may have been at the table but not in his seat. With the ruling you made just make sure you are consistent from here on at. If they are at the table but not fully seated they get to play.

And seriously, how bad did it get that you had to implement this rule in a home game?
He was outside the room noticed his hand was being mucked then called over that he was going to play his hand. I stopped dragging them into the muck. He ran to the table and reached over for his cards to drag them back he then sat down to view his cards and make a decision. So he was never really at the table or his seat while the cards were in the process of being mucked. I'm sure nobody would question if he could play if he was within hands reach of his seat.

well i did say this was one of the rules we added but last time at a full table it was crawling down to half an orbit per 20 min blind.
 
In a casino (or at least during a tournament) if you are not at your seat when the deal starts, your hand will be mucked.
What cracks me up is people who bitch and complain when this happens to them. Because you know some dealers will hold the hand for a reg, if the see them coming back. So they expect that treatment from all dealers. And there’s never even a blind involved - people know better than to put themselves in that situation. But they get all pissy because they’re missing one hand.
 
We used to use the TDA rule that you had to be within reach of your chair when the last card was dealt.

To have a live hand, players must be at their seats when the last card is dealt to all players on the initial deal. Players not then at their seats may not look at their cards which are killed immediately. Their posted blinds and antes forfeit to the pot and an absent player dealt the stud bring-in card posts the bring-in. “At your seat” means in reach of your chair. This rule is not intended to encourage players to be out of their seats while in a hand.

Turns out is was just too restrictive for a home game. We changed it to if the player is not in the room his hand is dead and is mucked. If they are in the room we just let them know they have a hand. No hard feelings this way.
this is a good rule to follow in a casino, but as a dealer i hated this rule. So many times I'd be pitching cards around the table, and then look up to see a player speed walking to the table like 10 feet away. We would lock eyes, and then I'd have to muck his hand. Then I'd have to hear how much I suck and what a bad dealer I am during that hand. lol.
 
If this genuinely is a problem in your game (aren’t people there to play poker?), I would make the rule auto muck all hands where players are not actually seated when the deal is finished. And then enforce the hell out of it. Otherwise I’m with @upNdown on this one. All my games are cash though so missing a hand isn’t a big deal
 
Let him play the hand. If the hand isn't in the muck, it's retrievable. If he's there ready to play don't muck him on a technicality.

Going forward, deal all the cards. As soon as the deal is complete the dealer should immediately muck the cards of any absent player. This is a black and white application of your rule.

In a home game I'd make an exception for players who are reasonably close to their seat or on their way to their seat if it's not slowing down the game.
 
Going forward, deal all the cards. As soon as the deal is complete the dealer should immediately muck the cards of any absent player. This is a black and white application of your rule.

While I personally hate this rule, I agree it may be required to get a game into shape. I definitely feel like it is a nuclear option though.
 
I think you have enough feedback to pick a direction.

The spirit of the game, Home version ;) would let the person call audibly if they want the hand or not, meaning in the room or close to it. They can call, if it starts to be an issue revise.

To be super clear, they can call blind from their location or muck they get an option, but we won't wait minutes while they finish up and come back to the hand, they can make the decision in the air, otherwise its dead.
 
Good ruling. However, for the next time, you might want to define what it means to be "at the table" so this vague situation won't happen again.

I agree with most people here that the TDA rule is too restrictive for a home game. At my game, we yell across the room to warn absent players a new hand has been dealt. If it's on them and they're nowhere near their chair, we either fold their hand or they can play blind from across the room. Funnily enough, most take the raise/call blind option :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 
At my home game, we will literally yell to the absent player from the table advising of the action before them and ask them if they want to call/raise or fold without them having seen their cards. Works fantastic. However, we are fairly low stakes and I pride myself on running an extremely friendly game. Action does not slow down at all.
 
Much more casual at my game. I've waited for someone while they were in the can, but not more than maybe a minute or 2. Probably too lenient, but when he gets out everyone can give him a hard time and it usually gets a laugh.

Usually everyone is respectful on making sure they are in their seats for a hand, so I haven't run into a situation like this much, knock on wood.

I'd be on the side of, it's a home game, if the cards didn't make it to the muck, let him play it. He probably got the message and will strive to not be "late to a hand" again.
 
I do belive that player should be seated. You deal cards to the stacks and muck immediately hands that belong to absent players.
 
I didn't have a rule like this before. What would happen was:

1. When someone wasn't at their seat people would shout "Hey Bob, it's on you!", and Bob would say "ok, be right there" and proceed to get his beer from the fridge, check his phone, make small talk to an eliminated player and then finally drag his ass to the table, look at the cards, then fold. Gee, I'm glad we invested all that time!
2. People like Bob would make absolutely zero effort to swiftly return to the table.
3. Sometimes someone at the table would fold the absent player before anyone shouted because "that's the rule" they said. I.e., inconsistent handling depending on who's at the table.

Nowadays, my rule is that you get folded if you're not present when it's your turn to act. I'm not saying the rule is perfect, but it definitely works. Since it's a friendly homegame, being close by and rushing to your seat counts as "present". Being close but not making an effort to move fast gets your ass folded. At least if I'm at the table.

This is one of many measures I've taken to get more hands/hour, and it DEFINITELY works! Both practically and as an attitude adjustment: People learn to understand that it's not their right to waste everyone's time.

"But Mr W, it's a homegame, you're there to play, so let them play!"
Well...with this rule we actually get to play MORE hands! :)
 
I didn't have a rule like this before. What would happen was:

1. When someone wasn't at their seat people would shout "Hey Bob, it's on you!", and Bob would say "ok, be right there" and proceed to get his beer from the fridge, check his phone, make small talk to an eliminated player and then finally drag his ass to the table, look at the cards, then fold. Gee, I'm glad we invested all that time!
2. People like Bob would make absolutely zero effort to swiftly return to the table.
3. Sometimes someone at the table would fold the absent player before anyone shouted because "that's the rule" they said. I.e., inconsistent handling depending on who's at the table.

Nowadays, my rule is that you get folded if you're not present when it's your turn to act. I'm not saying the rule is perfect, but it definitely works. Since it's a friendly homegame, being close by and rushing to your seat counts as "present". Being close but not making an effort to move fast gets your ass folded. At least if I'm at the table.

This is one of many measures I've taken to get more hands/hour, and it DEFINITELY works! Both practically and as an attitude adjustment: People learn to understand that it's not their right to waste everyone's time.

"But Mr W, it's a homegame, you're there to play, so let them play!"
Well...with this rule we actually get to play MORE hands! :)

Best option right here. In other words, let the guy in your example play if he is rushing back to his seat.
 

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