online 5 card plo8 (1 Viewer)

[upNdown]

Playing .25/.50 PLO8 online with a known cast of characters. I'm not going to give you player reads except to say that nobody in this hand stinks.
I don't have exact stack sizes, but these are close enough.

Villain1 SB $100
Villain2 BB $140
Villain3 HJ $50
Hero CO $160
Villain4 B $100

Action folds to Hijack, who makes it $1.75.
Hero is looking at
Raise Call or Fold?

 

[Rhodeman77]

Call to invite everyone else along. You are almost always going to make the nut low if one is possible so being multi-way with A23 is not bad. Plus if you try to isolate HJ you may be playing for stacks with a short stacked player that has a strong high hand already.

going 3-4 to the flop will keep him more honest post flop.

 

[FDLmold]

call, unless raising will not thin the field
can scoop with heart nut flush and a million ways to make a low
i want to encourage hands with worse low potential to make a mistake and enter this pot with me

 

[Legend5555]

You don't have enough going on for high to 3 bet imo. If you had another broadway card, or another Q or As instead of the 7, then a 3 bet makes more sense. As it stands, you have a good chance to make the nut low. But this is PLO8, and naked nut lows are not enough. You need to be sure you have a way to win high too. So call and see the flop in hopes to pick up something for high to go along with your likely nut low.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I agree with the general sentiment of previous replies saying to flat-call here. This is essentially a half-pot type of hand with some modest high potential.

A lot of your winnings in O8 variants will come from encouraging large, multi-way pots when you have playable one-way hands, whether it's a nearly bare A23xx like this one or a hand like KKxxx shooting for a high-only outcome. This can be a little messier in pot-limit than in limit, but the general principle holds in this hand.

 

[CraigT78]

I'm not going to give you player reads except to say that nobody in this hand stinks.

So I wasn't playing this time?

 

[mtl mile end]

5 Card PLO8!!!

I had no idea that such a thing was a thing. Should really change the name to ELaCP.

 

[Hornet]

Ok, first, real poker players call this game BigO.

I am fine with a 3-bet or a call depending on table dynamics, your read on how likely players are to continue post flop, and your table image. If your 7 was a broadway or wheel card, I’d like a raise much more.

 

[upNdown]

Ok, first, real poker players call this game BigO.

That’s really sweet, thanks.
I guess if a guy like you could understand what game I was talking about, we’re good.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Ok, first, real poker players call this game BigO.

I've been playing poker for 20+ years, and this particular variant for 6 or 7 years. I think that qualifies me as a real poker player.

This game was first introduced to me as Big O, and I think it's a terrible name because it's not clear right away that it's high-low. Intuitively, it looks like it's just "Big Omaha," which sounds like a high-only game if you don't already know it's not.

I've seen enough people in dealer's choice games ask to clarify whether Big O is high-low (or learn the hard way when they only win half the pot) that I've grown to dislike that name. I've heard no compelling argument for why it should be called Big O, aside from the fact that it's what it was first named years ago.

I will say that I do like the name "Bigger O" for 6-Card O8, but only because it's kinda funny. Otherwise, same issue.

 

[Hornet]

That’s really sweet, thanks.
I guess if a guy like you could understand what game I was talking about, we’re good.

But you don’t even know me.

 

[upNdown]

Villain1 SB $100
Villain2 BB $140
Villain3 HJ $50
Hero CO $160
Villain4 B $100

Action folds to Hijack, who makes it $1.75.
Hero is looking at
—————————-

Hero flats here, thinking much of what has been said.

Button folds
Small blind calls $1.50
Big blind raises to $8.75
Cutoff calls $8.75

Pot is $20.75, two villains in, $8.75 to hero who can close the action.
Raise, call, or fold?

 

[Hornet]

I've been playing poker for 20+ years, and this particular variant for 6 or 7 years. I think that qualifies me as a real poker player.

This game was first introduced to me as Big O, and I think it's a terrible name because it's not clear right away that it's high-low. Intuitively, it looks like it's just "Big Omaha," which sounds like a high-only game if you don't already know it's not.

I've seen enough people in dealer's choice games ask to clarify whether Big O is high-low (or learn the hard way when they only win half the pot) that I've grown to dislike that name. I've heard no compelling argument for why it should be called Big O, aside from the fact that it's what it was first named years ago.

I obviously was trying to be provocative. I agree with you that the name of the game has caused confusion. My preference is saying BigO for 5 card hi-lo and saying 5 card PLO hi for the other game game.

 

[Hornet]

Call. Your hand plays fine 3-ways for less than 10% of your stack, and I don’t want to play for stacks with that holding. You should get a good sense of where you’re at after you see the flop.

 

[detroitdad]

. Is this the hand I was in with you?

 

[upNdown]

. Is this the hand I was in with you?

No, this was after I lost two buyins at .10/,20, so I did what any reasonable person would do, and moved up to .25/.50. You weren’t on that table, last night.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Obviously it's not great that it went to 3 bets, but with stacks this deep, a call seems right.

The really unfortunate thing here is that your A2 low is almost certainly duplicated, based on the action. Even the A3 could be looking at a quartering situation if a low comes with a 2 on the board.

What you really want on the flop is to smash a high hand, ideally with a made low or low draw as well. If all you get is a bare low, tread cautiously.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Definitely call and hope for an A7 or AQx(low card) flop.

 

[mtl mile end]

ELaCP !!

 

[upNdown]

Hero folds. Here’s my thinking:
Villain2 in the big blind is pretty agressive. After he three-bet pre, I’m expecting a pot bet on the flop most percent of the time, from him.
My ace deuce three is nice, but IF a low comes, I’m chopping the low, more likely than not. And that’s a big IF - there are only lows in 60% of the hands, and that’s IF I make it to the river. Which will be hard to do if villain2 pots the flop.
As far as high goes, I don’t have a good hand. Yes, I could make a nut flush. A wheel is also possible, but I never feel great about bottom straight in this game, especially if it seems like I’m chopping the low.

So that’s it. Call me nitty, I probably deserve it. But i think in this particular game, nittiness is called for.

Anyway. Flop was Ks 5h 6s.
Big blind did indeed pot to $20.75, hijack went all in for $41.25, big blind called.
Turn 4h
River Qh
Hero would have taken 75% of the pot, but is stubbornly convinced he made a good fold.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Hero folds. Here’s my thinking:
Villain2 in the big blind is pretty agressive. After he three-bet pre, I’m expecting a pot bet on the flop most percent of the time, from him.
My ace deuce three is nice, but IF a low comes, I’m chopping the low, more likely than not. And that’s a big IF - there are only lows in 60% of the hands, and that’s IF I make it to the river. Which will be hard to do if villain2 pots the flop.
As far as high goes, I don’t have a good hand. Yes, I could make a nut flush. A wheel is also possible, but I never feel great about bottom straight in this game, especially if it seems like I’m chopping the low.

So that’s it. Call me nitty, I probably deserve it. But i think in this particular game, nittiness is called for.

Anyway. Flop was Ks 5h 6s.
Big blind did indeed pot to $20.75, hijack went all in for $41.25, big blind called.
Turn 4h
River Qh
Hero would have taken 75% of the pot, but is stubbornly convinced he made a good fold.

You can't let the results mess with you. I said you should call, but it's a close decision, and I don't think it was such a bad fold*.

An A23 hand isn't an automatic ticket to the river. Given the action, I'd say you were correct to be worried about having a likely duplicated low and only modest high prospects. The bet was large and you could escape for cheap. Save your chips for better spots.

Spoiler: *

Unless you were up against a table full of loose donkeys blasting off with any playable hand. Then it's a sacrilege to fold a hand this strong. But your description suggests competent players.

 

[upNdown]

You can't let the results mess with you. I said you should call, but it's a close decision, and I don't think it was such a bad fold*.

An A23 hand isn't an automatic ticket to the river. Given the action, I'd say you were correct to be worried about having a likely duplicated low and only modest high prospects. The bet was large and you could escape for cheap. Save your chips for better spots.

Spoiler: *

Unless you were up against a table full of loose donkeys blasting off with any playable hand. Then it's a sacrilege to fold a hand this strong. But your description suggests competent players.

Thanks. Not your typical strategy thread, but I posted this looking for thoughts and opinions, because it was a tough decision. I suspect most people would have paid to see the flop, but what then?
I don’t mind paying to draw in this game. I mean it’s Omaha, so you have to. But this hand went exactly as I’d feared.
I flopped a nut low draw, a gutty, and a back door nut flush draw.
I think villain would have potted that flop 3-way, and I would have been pretty much playing for stacks at that point. In a hand where I’m probably chopping the low and pretty much need runner runner hearts for a high.

 

[Moxie Mike]

Preflop: I like a 3-bet to discourage the button from getting involved - essentially buying position for the entire hand. Calling is OK too for all the stated reasons.

When facing the preflop 3-bet, I'm going to call, closing the action. HERO is deep enough to peel a flop in position - if HERO doesn't flop strongly HERO can just muck without incurring much stack damage.

One the flop, that's a bit tougher facing a bet and a raise. HERO has a decent amount of equity with the 2nd nut FD, the gutter and the BD NFD to go with what is a virtually uncounterfeitable nut low draw. HERO can also call confident that the BB can't re-raise, since the HJ's jam wasn't a full raise (subject to cardroom rules).

Since this is only a 5-handed game, it's somewhat less likely that one of the Villains holds the nut spade draw. At full ring I'm much less confident in the 2nd nut spade draw.

All that said, I'm probably folding to the flop bet and raise. It's just not a great spot to play a big pot and there's really no plan if the turn bricks. Stacking off here is asking to get quartered or even sixthed if the low even gets there*.

*According to this, HERO was about 72% to make a low by the river.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Thanks. Not your typical strategy thread, but I posted this looking for thoughts and opinions, because it was a tough decision. I suspect most people would have paid to see the flop, but what then?
I don’t mind paying to draw in this game. I mean it’s Omaha, so you have to. But this hand went exactly as I’d feared.
I flopped a nut low draw, a gutty, and a back door nut flush draw.
I think villain would have potted that flop 3-way, and I would have been pretty much playing for stacks at that point. In a hand where I’m probably chopping the low and pretty much need runner runner hearts for a high.

getting 1/4 is a 4 way pot is not bad. You break even. But if you have any equity to the high the upside of getting 3/4 is big and worth the risk sometimes.

so keeping the hand multi way helps protect you from losing money when getting 1/4.

 

[upNdown]

getting 1/4 is a 4 way pot is not bad. You break even.

It's a nice theory preflop. But how often are four players putting money in on the river?

 

[MrCatPants]

I've been playing poker for 20+ years, and this particular variant for 6 or 7 years. I think that qualifies me as a real poker player.

This game was first introduced to me as Big O, and I think it's a terrible name because it's not clear right away that it's high-low. Intuitively, it looks like it's just "Big Omaha," which sounds like a high-only game if you don't already know it's not.

I've seen enough people in dealer's choice games ask to clarify whether Big O is high-low (or learn the hard way when they only win half the pot) that I've grown to dislike that name. I've heard no compelling argument for why it should be called Big O, aside from the fact that it's what it was first named years ago.

I will say that I do like the name "Bigger O" for 6-Card O8, but only because it's kinda funny. Otherwise, same issue.

Down here in Texas the game is often called "Congress".