No more auctions (1 Viewer)

GIANTDustySquid

GIANTDustySquid

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I know everyone has a right to sell their chips for whatever they want, but come off it, put a price on your chips and negotiate from there if you have to!

Damn near 100% of the world's true chip (set) enthusiasts are on PCF. Among them are many different classes of people.

I do not find it fair to say "an auction is the only way to find out true market value of a chip".

You can argue, "it doesn't matter what class of person you are, the value is determined by what someone is willing to pay for the product" all you want, but when you have people literally trying to suck every cent out of their chips, from THE ONLY group of people who is (likely) even interested in buying these chips (it's embarassing) (if they're interested in buying these chips, they're likely on PCF), then you get nothing but an inflated price, and overall, an expectation from the buyer that they could themselves sell these chips for the same price at a future time.

I do not think this is a realistic expectation for judging "market value".

There are very few people in the world buying many of the premium chips at these "market" prices and I don't even think it's fair to them, whether they care about their money or not!

I am so glad I am not just getting into this hobby right this second, and feel lucky to have managed to get most all the Jacks I needed from the original sale, and have had some help from some good members to not rake me over the coals for the chips I've added to my set.

At the end of the day, why can't you just put a price on your chips, and put them for sale?

Add on your shipping fees, and your nuisance fees or whatever, and put a frigging price on your chips. It's embarassing.

NO MORE AUCTIONS!

I'm sure there is argument against this but I just think the auctions are greasy.

So I have an 800 chip cash set of Jack's for sale $8000 + shipping OBO!
 
There are lots of ways to look at it...

What about the for sale threads that just sit there and get bumped over and over and the seller won’t lower the price? Or the seller that lists a set of XYZ chips (ie NCV Pharaohs) at 5+ a chip hoping for a sucker? Is that greasy?

What about private sales where prices are never published - so that market discovery of prices isn't happening? I’ll bet many of the chips sold at big mark ups are done privately so that the seller isn’t seen as a price gouger. I see nothing wrong with mark iOS since the buyer is willing to pay it. I do wish for more transparency in private sales. But then again by definition private means private.

I like the auctions honestly... I think overall it’s pretty fair. The seller accepts whatever their fate is. It’s not always a seller’s market... I have seen auctions where chips are sold at a very good price to the buyer...

So I just think there are pros and cons to every method.
 
Wait, which Jack chips are we talking about here? If the solid tournament chips, I bid $6. ;)


Edit: nevermind, I see they are the cash chips. But I will not retract my bid because that is frowned upon, so the $6 stands.
 
Anybody who 's ever taken a freshman-year introductory economics course would agree with @GIANTDustySquid
Demand and Supply are market-specific, and this an awfully niche market, with practically unelastic demand (something like bread or gasoline for the general public). Sure, allow auctions for bread and gasoline out there:whistle: :whistling:
 
Coyote said:
Anybody who 's ever taken a freshman-year introductory economics course would agree with @GIANTDustySquid
Demand and Supply are market-specific, and this an awfully niche market, with practically unelastic demand (something like bread or gasoline for the general public). Sure, allow auctions for bread and gasoline out there:whistle: :whistling:
Click to expand...
Oh, I actually agree with his point. But I haven't been trolling enough lately...
 
Coyote said:
Anybody who 's ever taken a freshman-year introductory economics course would agree with @GIANTDustySquid
Demand and Supply are market-specific, and this an awfully niche market, with practically unelastic demand (something like bread or gasoline for the general public). Sure, allow auctions for bread and gasoline out there:whistle: :whistling:
Click to expand...

I don’t quite agree. Not much alternative for gasoline out there but you can always play with Costco dice chips.
 
Coyote said:
Not if you 're a member here.
"Out there" you could always play with dice chips, or catch the bus or the subway, or call a a cab, or walk, also.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm... sorry again I don’t quite agree. In 99% of America the alternative to driving your own car is not really a real alternative.

Then again if someone invited me to a game that use dice chips I prefer to not play.

‍:vomit:
 
Changster said:
Hmmmm... sorry again I don’t quite agree. In 99% of America the alternative to driving your own car is not really a real alternative.

Then again if someone invited me to a game that use dice chips I prefer to not play.

‍:vomit:
Click to expand...
That's reinforcing my own argument about un-elasticity of demand. So, demand can be unelastic outside this forum too. More so inside this forum, when it comes to chips.
Auctioning "vital" (unelastic) goods from the supply side, be it gasoline for the general public or casino clay chips on this forum, shouldn't be considered as fair - IMHO.
 
Anyone who has done an economics course knows that number of sales vs price is a curve. At lower prices, more people buy and at higher prices fewer buy.

As such there is no such thing as market price, only the last price that something sold for. Beyond that things may sell for more or less, which is demand dependent. But one sale does not define the market. Neither does the last sale define the market.
 
A product is only worth what consumers are willing to pay for it.

The seller sets the price and the medium. The buyer either accepts those conditions or walks.

That's the paradigm in a nutshell.

If you find auctions detestable then, by all means, don't participate in them. If enough buyers think like you, I guarantee the market will react and auctions will cease to exist.
 
Darson said:
Beyond that things may sell for more or less, which is demand dependent
Click to expand...
PlaidDragon said:
A product is only worth what consumers are willing to pay for it.
Click to expand...
If consumers "can't live without" the product, reallly or perceivably, for any reason (ie total lack of elasticity), there is a lot of margin for manipulating (politest word in the dictionnary:D) the poor demand side of the market:)
 
navels said:
Here's a set I have listed at a loss: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/super-sexy-radisson-matsui-cash-set-price-drop.39037/

I could continue to drop the price slowly over time but at this point I'd rather just do a 48-hour auction and get it over with.
Click to expand...
moose said:
IMHO better here than on eBay which ensures the chips go to pcf'ers.
Click to expand...
We can argue about what type of market this is or whether chips are elastic or inelastic or a bunch of ECON101 terms but the two points above hit it home for me.

If you don’t like auctions, I guess avoid them? but these threads are just a drag and aren’t going to change anyone’s mind on the matter let’s agree we all have different opinions. :tup:
 
Personally, I'll take an auction any day vs. those terrible raffles. As a Euro chipper, auctions also offer the advantage of giving people outside the US a chance to pick up chips, as normally we're sleeping when For Sale listings go up - by the time I wake up and see a good sale, the chips are usually long gone.

I happily participate in auctions up to an amount I'm comfortable with. If someone is willing to spend more than me in order to obtain a set of chips, well, so be it.

For the record, I think the comparison to bread is off here. Bread is common. Heck, I can make bread myself (and regularly do). Paulson chips? Not so common and I sure as heck can't make them myself (wouldn't that be nice).
 
GIANTDustySquid said:
I know everyone has a right to sell their chips for whatever they want, but come off it, put a price on your chips and negotiate from there if you have to!

Damn near 100% of the world's true chip (set) enthusiasts are on PCF. Among them are many different classes of people.

I do not find it fair to say "an auction is the only way to find out true market value of a chip".

You can argue, "it doesn't matter what class of person you are, the value is determined by what someone is willing to pay for the product" all you want, but when you have people literally trying to suck every cent out of their chips, from THE ONLY group of people who is (likely) even interested in buying these chips (it's embarassing) (if they're interested in buying these chips, they're likely on PCF), then you get nothing but an inflated price, and overall, an expectation from the buyer that they could themselves sell these chips for the same price at a future time.

I do not think this is a realistic expectation for judging "market value".

There are very few people in the world buying many of the premium chips at these "market" prices and I don't even think it's fair to them, whether they care about their money or not!

I am so glad I am not just getting into this hobby right this second, and feel lucky to have managed to get most all the Jacks I needed from the original sale, and have had some help from some good members to not rake me over the coals for the chips I've added to my set.

At the end of the day, why can't you just put a price on your chips, and put them for sale?

Add on your shipping fees, and your nuisance fees or whatever, and put a frigging price on your chips. It's embarassing.

NO MORE AUCTIONS!

I'm sure there is argument against this but I just think the auctions are greasy.

So I have an 800 chip cash set of Jack's for sale $8000 + shipping OBO!
Click to expand...

I mostly agree...

Interesting post from an auctioneer... :rolleyes:

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/20-x-kings-castle-0-50-fracs.37984/

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/60-x-trk-kings-castle-1-chips.37982/
 
I think that many/most members want a fair price for their chips and don't want to either gouge an unsuspecting member or practically give the chips away because he/she underestimates the market. When buying, I prefer seeing an ad with a fixed price. However, when selling, it can be difficult to determine a fair price.

I've noticed that some members will criticize a seller for the price he/she is asking, or for selling privately, or for listing them on eBay instead of on PCF, or for offering their chips in a dibs sale where for various reasons even that can be perceived as being unfair, or for running an auction when buyers with the deepest pockets end up with the rarest chips.

I really don't know whether a dibs sale or an auction is the fairest way to sell chips on PCF. I remember seeing a sale where a price was set and the seller conducted a raffle to determine which interested members could buy the chips at an attractive price. I guess it just depends.
 
slisk250 said:
I mostly agree...

Interesting post from an auctioneer... :rolleyes:

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/20-x-kings-castle-0-50-fracs.37984/

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/60-x-trk-kings-castle-1-chips.37982/
Click to expand...

Even tree huggers fly in planes and drive cars. Everybody’s a hypocrite at some point in life, what’s your point here? That if you hold an auction your opinions on them are invalid?

I don’t like working for the man, but since I worked before I can no longer say I don’t like it?
 
There are two big advantages that I see to an auction. One benefits the seller and one, in a sense, benefits all buyers.

The main advantage to the seller is to ensure that you are not leaving a significant amount of money on the table. This is particularly true for chips that haven’t transacted much and where the “market price” is not transaparent. As a new seller of chips, I auctioned some for that reason. I just wanted to make sure I was getting a fair price.

The main advantage to the buyers is that more people have a chance to participate. Given the 24/7 nature of this board, I’ll often wake up, check the PCF posts first thing (yes, I have a problem), and wish I had been able to buy something that already sold. I get the “you snooze, you lose” aspect, but in a sense an auction is fairer to all buyers because it gives more buyers a chance.
 

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