newbie question - murder or overlay? (1 Viewer)

[utgtrash]

sorry if there's already a thread i could look at, but when would you mill/murder a chip for a relabel vs just labelling-over?

 

[ekricket]

Recess availability. For example it could be a chip that has worn so much there’s no recess left

 

[utgtrash]

so minty chips generally can be labelled-over?

 

[joker80]

Value of underlying chip is a consideration. Hot stamps are typically milled

 

[OfficerLovejoy]

Do not overlable a hot stamp. You will see/feel it through the lable and there is no recess to put the lable in.
Generally a complete inlay replacement feels and sounds better. That is what I think at least.

Milled hot stamps ($5s and $20s)

And inlay replacements (10cts, $5s)

 

[BearMetal]

It all depends on which chips you're talking about and what their recessed area size is. But, in general:

• over-labelling is certainly easier and preserves the original chip
• murdering lets you use thicker laminated labels which are more durable

Here's a thread from a while back that has images of the same RHC JACK $25 chip with both overlabel and murder examples:

• Overlabel Example
• Murder Example

 

[MaxB]

murder .... if you don't care about resale cost (don't murder $5+ chips and expect to get that value back) i.e. murder high denom Dunes or 1970's Stardusts and you will regret it. Murder hot stamps (labels will bubble up and eventually peel off). Murder super worn chips where applying a label will make them spinners. Shitty ugly chips that everyone hates or any Grand Victoria IN chips (so nasty looking)

label ... valuable collectable chips that you will eventually sell. Chips that have a deep recess that can take a label without becoming a spinner. Chips that you will want to use again for your next relabel project. If you are feeling cheap and don't want to spend the extra money so you can buy more sets

MURDER THESE!!!!!!!!

 

[Coyote]

These, on the other hand are labelled-over:

NAGB chips which could have been murdered; still a more pricey procedure and not really necessary IMHO, if the @Gear wizard does the job.

Former real casino chips; not deserving murder anyway:

If you murdered those last ones especially, there are people here fanatic enough to make sure you would be deprived of any meaningful life

 

[utgtrash]

wow this is all helpful especially the links to discussions that have been had on this topic - thanks for the help!

 

[Marius L]

I pretty much always prefer full murder. I do not really like the feel of overlabels because there will be pretty much zero recess left, and imo it feels natural that there is some space.

Additionally, the nicest feeling labels are textured, and there is not enough space to get textured labels if you go for overlabels.

I've tried both, and I will always go for full murder from now on.

There are chips I wouldn't murder though. Rare and super expensive chips. Probably wouldnt overlabel them either, but rather find other chips to use.

 

[BearMetal]

wow this is all helpful especially the links to discussions that have been had on this topic - thanks for the help!

That's what we're all here for! I don't think there's a wrong approach (barring the specific chip you're talking about having problems with one method or another). There are benefits and drawbacks to each approach; I personally prefer murder, but as you can see from @Coyote's post, a label-over can also turn out awesome.

 

[CrazyEddie]

I think chips that have been murdered (whether inlay-removed or milled) look terrible if the original chip is something like a THC or RHC where the chip's mold already has a recess. Removing the inlay or milling out an inlay or hotstamp creates a second recess within the molded recess. Putting a label inside that second recess never has the same result as the original inlay, because the original inlay is an actual inlay that's pressed into the surface of the molded recess. The inlay is perfectly flush with the surface and has no gaps between the inlay and the chip. Putting a decal on the milled-out second recess can never be perfectly flush and never be without gaps.

Maybe most people don't notice, but I do. Or maybe most people don't care, but I do.

If I were going to relabel a chip that had a significant recess molded into it (including THC, RHC, and many but by no means all old-school molds) I would always choose an overlabel and never mill or do an inlay replacement.

But that's just me.

 

[The_dude]

I think chips that have been murdered (whether inlay-removed or milled) look terrible if the original chip is something like a THC or RHC where the chip's mold already has a recess. Removing the inlay or milling out an inlay or hotstamp creates a second recess within the molded recess. Putting a label inside that second recess never has the same result as the original inlay, because the original inlay is an actual inlay that's pressed into the surface of the molded recess. The inlay is perfectly flush with the surface and has no gaps between the inlay and the chip. Putting a decal on the milled-out second recess can never be perfectly flush and never be without gaps.

Maybe most people don't notice, but I do. Or maybe most people don't care, but I do.

If I were going to relabel a chip that had a significant recess molded into it (including THC, RHC, and many but by no means all old-school molds) I would always choose an overlabel and never mill or do an inlay replacement.

But that's just me.

I prefer overlabels as well, they don’t look as good as originals but don’t have the fit problem @CrazyEddie described, which I can’t unsee.

Your best bet is to order a few singles, some @Gear sample labels, DIY and compare the results.

 

[Nanook]

I think chips that have been murdered (whether inlay-removed or milled) look terrible if the original chip is something like a THC or RHC where the chip's mold already has a recess. Removing the inlay or milling out an inlay or hotstamp creates a second recess within the molded recess. Putting a label inside that second recess never has the same result as the original inlay, because the original inlay is an actual inlay that's pressed into the surface of the molded recess. The inlay is perfectly flush with the surface and has no gaps between the inlay and the chip. Putting a decal on the milled-out second recess can never be perfectly flush and never be without gaps.

Maybe most people don't notice, but I do. Or maybe most people don't care, but I do.

If I were going to relabel a chip that had a significant recess molded into it (including THC, RHC, and many but by no means all old-school molds) I would always choose an overlabel and never mill or do an inlay replacement.

But that's just me.

Well you do you, but there are disadvantages of doing the overlabel and in a lot of cases those disadvantages are pretty bad. I would argue, in a lot of cases, that those disadvantages are worse than the imperfect fit look. They create spinners/ wobbly & uneven stacks, thin labels where whatever is under there can be seen, labels that look cheap and/or have no laminate so they do not hold up well etc, etc & on and on.

I know that a lot of us would not suggest the "never mill or inlay replacement" advice....

 

[utgtrash]

it seems like maybe one very helpful deciding factor is whether you want to be able to undo the relabeling, otherwise it’s a mixed bag or depends on the chip, etc

 

[Nanook]

All that is not to say that milling or full inlay replacement does not come with a cost. As has been said before, it is really tough to get a label to fit perfectly into that recess that is left by milling or inlay replacement.

I guess there are disadvantages and advantages to both. The only way you are really going to know 100% for sure is to try both and see which you like better.

 

[Nanook]

it seems like maybe one very helpful deciding factor is whether you want to be able to undo the relabeling, otherwise it’s a mixed bag or depends on the chip, etc

Most of the time the labels will come off without damage, but there are times when taking up/removing the overlabel will pull up the laminate or damage the laminate/inlay in some way. I personally have not had this happen, but I have heard others say that this can happen. There are some chips (like some of the HSI & JACK Cinci chips) where the laminate pulls off/up/loose pretty easily. I can imagine that if you put a overlabel on any of those chips there would be a decent chance of damaging the chip if you tried to remove the label after a while.

 

[allforcharity]

sorry if there's already a thread i could look at, but when would you mill/murder a chip for a relabel vs just labelling-over?

When you want to do it right.

 

[Nanook]

When you want to do it right.

So there you go

 

[CrazyEddie]

pistols at dawn it is then

 

[Marius L]

You should get some sample labels and try on a couple of different chips.

@Gear sells label samples where you can see some random different designs, but more importantly the different label thicknesses, textured, untextured etc.

Then grab a small handful of cheap rhc / thc (both used and minty), and give it a go. Definitely should also consider getting some of the chips you plan to use. You will quickly get a feel for what you prefer. You might feel different based on if you want rhc or thc.

For me it's an easy choice, unless the chips are super rare. I much prefer the feel and looks of full murder.