New Bet-Sizing Trends?

chipsncoffee

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I've been playing a lot online since the COVID-19 outbreak, and I've noticed something that is a bit different from when I was last playing online.

I primarily play $200 and occasionally $500 NLHE, and I've noticed that not only has the frequency of continuation betting gone down, but, when players do c-bet, it is often for around 30% - 35% of the pot where the norm used to be pretty much anywhere between 50% - 75% pot. Most of the players I see utilizing this bet-sizing are pretty polarized as well, meaning that a 30% pot-sized bet does not necessarily mean weakness. If called, I often see that same person betting more than 75% of the pot on the turn.

I can definitely see where the small c-bet would work well in certain circumstances. For example, seeing if your opponent is intent on continuing, or even to induce a bluff-raise when you have a strong holding, but I somehow completely missed this. The reason I'm so curious is because I feel like poker actions are largely based on trends, and this is something new to have to adapt to. However, I also feel like I can see some pretty obvious pitfalls in this strategy.

I'd love to hear what you folks think about this. I've looked at some of the strategy discussion threads here, but haven't participated yet, so I'd really like to get into it with you guys!
 

madforpancakes

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I think I recall reading about this tactic (or something very similar) in Matthew Janda's No-Limit Hold 'em For Advanced Players. One of the takeaways from the book is to be conscious about how your bet size affects your opponents range. So when your opponent calls a small bet, they are left with a wide and weak range that you can then attack with a large bet on the next street if the card is favorable/blank.
 

Legend5555

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It's become the standard play based on lots of solver work. The small c-bet is most often used on dryer boards for a few reasons. It disguises your hand strength , compells people to continue with overcard hands and thin draws that you presumably have a range advantage over, and sets up double and triple barrel bluffs where are risking less had you bet larger on the flop.
 

chipsncoffee

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I think I recall reading about this tactic (or something very similar) in Matthew Janda's No-Limit Hold 'em For Advanced Players. One of the takeaways from the book is to be conscious about how your bet size affects your opponents range. So when your opponent calls a small bet, they are left with a wide and weak range that you can then attack with a large bet on the next street if the card is favorable/blank.
It's become the standard play based on lots of solver work. The small c-bet is most often used on dryer boards for a few reasons. It disguises your hand strength , compells people to continue with overcard hands and thin draws that you presumably have a range advantage over, and sets up double and triple barrel bluffs where are risking less had you bet larger on the flop.

I can absolutely see where this could be very useful, and I’m going to look into it more because it sounds like a really good happy medium between checking a good hand to trap, or C-betting too much with a good hand and losing value in either case. I feel like where I see it used most, however, is people using them as ‘feeler‘ bets as opposed to using them to get value from weaker hands.
 

Rhodeman77

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On the sites I have been playing almost all I see is POT sized bets. But I also play PLO games almost exclusively.

Though last nightI did get into a juicy $2/5 hold’em game where $30 opens were pretty standard. Also saw a $75 bet after a few limps and an open shove of $275 after 5 or so limps.

for aggressive players with a wide range smaller flop bets make a lot of sense. Especially vs loose passive players. Why risk more than you have to?
 

trigs

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And there seems to be an increase in overbets on rivers especially but sometimes the turn too I've noticed.
 

chipsncoffee

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On the sites I have been playing almost all I see is POT sized bets. But I also play PLO games almost exclusively.

Though last nightI did get into a juicy $2/5 hold’em game where $30 opens were pretty standard. Also saw a $75 bet after a few limps and an open shove of $275 after 5 or so limps.

for aggressive players with a wide range smaller flop bets make a lot of sense. Especially vs loose passive players. Why risk more than you have to?

That does sound like a juicy game!

I can definitely see where a small C-bet would be advantageous against passive players, but I still think I’m more in the camp of checking post-flop sometimes. What I am sure of is, either way, your actions should be balanced with a mix of strong hands, marginal hands, and bluffs. That’s why I called it a trend in the thread title. To me it looks like something that many players have picked up on, but may not be implementing in the manner for which it was intended.

And there seems to be an increase in overbets on rivers especially but sometimes the turn too I've noticed.

Absolutely! This is something that I have noticed too! That’d be another good topic to look up:tup:
 

Legend5555

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On the sites I have been playing almost all I see is POT sized bets. But I also play PLO games almost exclusively.

Though last nightI did get into a juicy $2/5 hold’em game where $30 opens were pretty standard. Also saw a $75 bet after a few limps and an open shove of $275 after 5 or so limps.

for aggressive players with a wide range smaller flop bets make a lot of sense. Especially vs loose passive players. Why risk more than you have to?
Online games on "reputable" sites are filled with a good amount of grinders. So you will see these small bets way more often from people that are really good, or play high volume online. It's not very common live except at the higher stakes. And in smaller private clubs online, you all mostly are playing against people that primarily play live and are more recreational. So you see it is there too.

I can't speak to PLO bet sizing strategy though.
 

chipsncoffee

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Online games on "reputable" sites are filled with a good amount of grinders. So you will see these small bets way more often from people that are really good, or play high volume online. It's not very common live except at the higher stakes. And in smaller private clubs online, you all mostly are playing against people that primarily play live and are more recreational. So you see it is there too.

I can't speak to PLO bet sizing strategy though.

I can’t speak to PLO bet-sizing either as I don’t really play PLO online. It’s something that I would love to do, but I know that I would absolutely need to do a ton of reading and studying before I would ever feel comfortable sitting down at an online PLO table.

I feel like the site that I play on (Bovada) doesn’t see many grinders at 2/5 or even 1/2 because I see so many players come in, win a decent-sized pot, then leave right away. It’s a bit tilting in that regard. :meh:
 
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