Negreanu considering not re-entering tournaments (1 Viewer)

If I played poker for a living then I might abide by this. I play one, $40.00 tourney a month with friends. I don't really care if I rebuy or not. How I make my decision on whether to rebuy or not is where the blind levels are at. Even then I'll still rebuy sometimes just to keep playing poker.

Now if the cash game is already going then screw rebuying :)
 
I have never been a fan of the "post poker craze" "Rebuys" (not a rebuy) offered by casinos, it is a money grab of the worst kind.
Major venues haven't used actual "Rebuy" tournaments in over a decade, they use "Re-Entry" under the guise of "Rebuy"......which are 2 completely different things.

Pre-2007, when you played a $1000 WSOP "Rebuy" event, your initial entry was paid with the usual ~10-12% to the casino/WSOP and then if you busted out, you literally stood up, shouted rebuy, threw a floor person another $1000 and sat back down in your SAME SEAT and that $1000 went ENTIRELY to the prize pool......
What the casino's realized they could do was nix the "Rebuy" part, but call them "Re-Entry" instead and then you have to go back to the cashier cage, pay your $1000 buy-in as if you were new and they rake the 10-12% from the $1000 and you get randomly seated somewhere away from your original seat (usually).........

The best one I remember was when Daniel "went off" for 48 rebuys in a $1k WSOP in 2006

TLDR: Rebuys - Good, Re-Entries - suck balls

Unfortunately, the poker playing public didn't give 2-shits about how they ran the tournaments, so Rebuys quietly went the way of the dodo bird and Re-Entries are here to stay......I agree with Daniel, especially for the high-rollers.....
 
Psypher1000 said:
Gave this a quick read this morning:

https://www.highstakesdb.com/9974-daniel-negreanu-to-never-re-enter-a-poker-tournament-again.aspx

He and I end up with similar conclusions on the matter, although for some different reasons. How do you approach rebuys/re-entries?
Click to expand...
That's pretty interesting. I remember a few years ago, he played a 1K rebuy, where he fired 50 bullets?

I paused to do some research and find the exact number, and @nitzilla posted the same thing! Great minds and all.
 
I think one and done is a good policy... UNLESS it's a bad beat really early on. Then you're not doing it to chase, but just to play as you expected
 
I can't say how it fares for most people, but in the past 10 years of my home game, I have rebought 22 times, and cashed with 4 of those second bullets.
Overall, in 79 events, I have cashed 25 times.

Bullet #2 hits 18%
All events 32%

The +/-EV feels pretty simple in my case.

Sadly, I know I'm still going to buy back in.
 
My home game does re-buys, and it's MY HOME, so if I bust out I re-buy. Like I'm going to just sit there and watch everyone else gamble when I could be in the game myself. We play a very social game with low stakes ($20 buy-ins), so a re-buy is pretty much a no-brainer.

If poker was my source of income, I get that you have to consider everything. But as a social game, I want to play.
 
No issue with re-entry in general. I think there is a balance to be struck with late registration, though.

This year's WSOP people were angling late reg to enter very close to the money and hoping to spin up a stack and sneak into the cash. This is something that pros take advantage of and recs don't generally do. This is on the excessive end of that balance I think.

If I'm a casino I'm loving re-entry and late reg and expanding it as much as I can possibly get away with to maximize rake efficiency.

If I care about the integrity of tournament competition, I'm limiting the availability of late reg, which effectively places downward pressure on the re-entry numbers.
 
nitzilla said:
I have never been a fan of the "post poker craze" "Rebuys" (not a rebuy) offered by casinos, it is a money grab of the worst kind.
Major venues haven't used actual "Rebuy" tournaments in over a decade, they use "Re-Entry" under the guise of "Rebuy"......which are 2 completely different things.

Pre-2007, when you played a $1000 WSOP "Rebuy" event, your initial entry was paid with the usual ~10-12% to the casino/WSOP and then if you busted out, you literally stood up, shouted rebuy, threw a floor person another $1000 and sat back down in your SAME SEAT and that $1000 went ENTIRELY to the prize pool......
What the casino's realized they could do was nix the "Rebuy" part, but call them "Re-Entry" instead and then you have to go back to the cashier cage, pay your $1000 buy-in as if you were new and they rake the 10-12% from the $1000 and you get randomly seated somewhere away from your original seat (usually).........

The best one I remember was when Daniel "went off" for 48 rebuys in a $1k WSOP in 2006

TLDR: Rebuys - Good, Re-Entries - suck balls

Unfortunately, the poker playing public didn't give 2-shits about how they ran the tournaments, so Rebuys quietly went the way of the dodo bird and Re-Entries are here to stay......I agree with Daniel, especially for the high-rollers.....
Click to expand...
There was also a problem with some floor people pocketing the re-buy cash.
 
I'd take this with a pinch of salt. He's at the WSOPE trying to get player of the year, not to win big money. His strategy is gamble to double up a few time and rebuy if it fails. It allowed him to min-cash in the PLO without actually playing after he doubled up his stack initially. So if the target is points for POY then the more rebuys the more chance of points. There are only a limited number of events paying points so you can afford to be looser in these events if rebuy is an option. When I saw his vlog last night he was something like -$200k which for a player like him is probably worth the investment for winning POY.

For normal play, rebuy is probably -ev.
 
CdnBeerLover said:
Our league has a single rebuy to guard against the occasional bad beat or failed bluff during the first 90 minutes. Many of our players are simply not interested in cash games, so if you get knocked out early, it gives you the option to continue playing.

I am prepared to rebuy, but try to avoid it.
Click to expand...
^ This is almost exactly the situation here, and how I approach it personally. However....

There is a running joke in our league that basically revolves around "Dave can't win tonight, he didn't re-buy" (somerimes with 'yet' tacked on). Because unlike @Poker Zombie, my win/cash rate after rebuying is significantly higher than when I don't re-buy -- and so much so, that it has become obvious common public knowledge among those who play against me.

I dunno if I crack down harder after re-buying, or play more aggressively and take more swing-for-the-fence chances before re-buying, or what, but the local public's perception is definitely backed up by the stats I keep. And 80% of my initial knockouts (getting KO'ed) occur as a favorite when the chips go in (and I don't count +ev 'coin flips' as being a favorite).
 
You track who has what at knockouts!?!
tumblr_np2cogOCk41s2f16eo1_400.gif


I have the feeling my next suggestion suggestion to @Mrs Poker Zombie isn't going to go over too well...
 
Sounds to me like his reasoning for not wanting to re-enter has more to do with him playing poorly on the first bullet than it does with the +/-EV of the tournament itself. If a tourney is worth buying into once, it's probably worth buying into twice if you bust out, so long as you're not reentering during a stage of the tourney where you effectively have an extremely short stack by rebuying. If a tourney is +EV for me, I'm going to rebuy if I run poorly. However, if I'm making mistakes and don't feel like I'm on my A game, then I won't rebuy.
 
RainmanTrail said:
Sounds to me like his reasoning for not wanting to re-enter has more to do with him playing poorly on the first bullet than it does with the +/-EV of the tournament itself. If a tourney is worth buying into once, it's probably worth buying into twice if you bust out, so long as you're not reentering during a stage of the tourney where you effectively have an extremely short stack by rebuying. If a tourney is +EV for me, I'm going to rebuy if I run poorly. However, if I'm making mistakes and don't feel like I'm on my A game, then I won't rebuy.
Click to expand...
I think there are two edges to this sword.

Obviously, professionals (like Negreanu) believe that every tournament is +EV, otherwise they wouldn't play. They are doing this for a living, not for fun. However, using 2-10 bullets on the same tournament may lead to bad decision making. I can only compare it to playing in a play-money tournament. You don't play your best, because you can just reload. Limiting it to one bullet means playing sharp from the onset.

While bullet #2 may still be viewed as +EV for the professional, pros like Negreanu aren't limited to a single tournament. He travels the world going to major events, where if you bust out, there is a different tournament starting every few hours. Nothing wrong with taking that +EV into a different event, maybe with a short break in between and staying sharp.
 
Poker Zombie said:
I think there are two edges to this sword.

Obviously, professionals (like Negreanu) believe that every tournament is +EV, otherwise they wouldn't play. They are doing this for a living, not for fun. However, using 2-10 bullets on the same tournament may lead to bad decision making. I can only compare it to playing in a play-money tournament. You don't play your best, because you can just reload. Limiting it to one bullet means playing sharp from the onset.

While bullet #2 may still be viewed as +EV for the professional, pros like Negreanu aren't limited to a single tournament. He travels the world going to major events, where if you bust out, there is a different tournament starting every few hours. Nothing wrong with taking that +EV into a different event, maybe with a short break in between and staying sharp.
Click to expand...

This is typical Negreanu nonsense. It's no different than saying he will only start playing one tournament per series because knowing there's another tourney the next day makes him play poorly in today's event. Just play better and stop making excuses for poor play. Bullet #2 is almost always higher EV/ROI than bullet #1 due to travel/hotel costs. He's a great player, but this is right up there with his "more rake is better" comment.
 
BGinGA said:
There is a running joke in our league that basically revolves around "Dave can't win tonight, he didn't re-buy" (somerimes with 'yet' tacked on). Because unlike @Poker Zombie, my win/cash rate after rebuying is significantly higher than when I don't re-buy -- and so much so, that it has become obvious common public knowledge among those who play against me.
Click to expand...

If memory serves, there was a run of 3 tournaments (or maybe 3 out of 4) in which you took bad beats early, rebought, and cashed (and won at least twice, I believe). I think that’s what got me (and others) joking about it, but that put it on the radar and then we noticed the continued results were uncanny. I suppose in the grand scheme of things, the sample size still isn’t huge, but it was definitely a solid trend.

Personally, as I’m sure your record-keeping will show, I try not to rebuy. I rebuy if I bust and feel I have a decent shot of cashing, but overall, I don’t think it usually makes a lot of sense from a profit-projection standpoint. So, I play as though the rebuy in these particular tournaments are “in case of emergency “ only and it seems to work.
 
I need at least 20BB to consider it, otherwise I'm going home or just chill waiting for the cash game.

I hate rebuy/reentry, whatever you want to call it and will never host one unless it is a fundraiser for charity.

Freeze outs are the great equalizer. It doesn't matter if you are Daniel N with a huge roll to burn or one of us. You get one shot. Millions in the bank won't help.
 

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