Cash Game [Need your advices] chips distribution per individu

Xtadeus

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Good evening. I hope I am in the correct section.

I would like to ask you what would be your appropriate distribution of chips for the set I intend to buy.

I play with friends ( we are always between 6 and 10 around the table ) We play cash and tournament but most often cash to allow people to play the whole night with us without being kicked after 1 hour ^^

What would be your division to handle 10 people at the table with recaves. ( we play 10 points ( euros ) = 10 000 chips with fixed blinds 50-100 in cash )

I have three propositions with a box of 850 chips. ( I need your advice on that )

First one :

12X25$ = 300$
12X100$ = 1200$
15X500$ = 7500$
1X1000$ = 1000$
------------------------------------------------
Total : 10 000$ - 40 chips/individu

40X21 = 840 chips I can take 10 chips with a value of 10 000$ - 15 000$ - 20 000$ ( don't know what would be better ) to make the change with big stacks during the game and get good initial stack back ).


Second one :

12X25$ = 300$
12X100$ = 1200$
13X500$ = 6500$
2X1000$ = 2000$
-----------------------------------------------
Total: 10 000$ - 39 chips/individu

39X21 = 819 chips I can take 31 chips with a value of 10 000$ - 15 000$ - 20 000$ ( don't know what would be better ) to make the change with big stacks during the game and get good initial stack back ).


Third one :

12X25$ = 300$
12X100$ = 1200$
11X500$ = 5500$
3X1000$ = 3000$
------------------------------------------------
Total: 10 000$ - 38 chips/individu

38X22 = 836 chis I can take 14 chips with a value of 10 000$ - 15 000$ - 20 000$ ( don't know what would be better ) to make the change with big stacks during the game and get good initial stack back ).


Thanks !
 

atomiktoaster

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So when you play cash, you have 1 euro = T1000, blinds are T50/T100 (.05/.10 euro) and buy-ins are typically T10k (10 euro)? Am I reading that correctly?
 

Xtadeus

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yes indeed. 1 euro = T1000. 10 euros = T10 000.
Blinds are T50/T100

buy ins are always 10 euros = T10000

Affirm atomiktoaster.

And we need recaves to allow people to continue to play when we are 10 around the table... So often we have people with 60-70 000 so we need big change to allow new recaves ;-) ( the chips left 10-31 or 14 chips of 10 000 - 15 000 or 20 000 I don't know yet ... )
 
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atomiktoaster

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Would you be willing to play 1 euro= T500 with blind at 25/50? That will be more efficient with chips (you should need fewer T25s), you'll be able to handle cashing people out exactly(.05,.20, 1 and 2 Euro coins all exist). I haven't done the math, but I think that will work out better for you.

In general, when you play cash games you should only include the smallest denom with the first buyin. Rebuys should use larger chips. In tournaments, you can easily handle a rebuy with 2 chips, and have the player make change at the table. You don't want ~250 of the smallest denom chips in this set, unless you're planning for a three table tournament. BGinGA might be able to help here.

Your tournament buy-ins would also be 10 euros, I'd suspect. That addresses some of the issues with dual-purpose chip sets. I'm sure you'll get advice to split it up between a cash and tournament set. Two 400 chip sets would be able to cover a single table, IMO, if you want to go that route.

Here's how I would do two sets:
Cash:
100 5c
100 25c
150 $1 (euro)
50 $5 or $10 (euro)

Tournament
100 $25
100 $100
50 $500
100 $1000
50 $5000

EDIT: I'm worried about the bank for the cash set. Even with the 10 euro chips you're less than 800 euro deep. You probably need to cover 1500 euro on the table to be safe.
 
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Xtadeus

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Thank you very much for this answer.

I must say that yes indeed it would be easier to cash out exactly but generally we only do 0.50 cent euros. And most of the time we play, we take round numbers and we let the rest to the guy who organized the game ( for drinks, lays chips .... a small reward ^^ )

I must also say that we have been playing for quite a long time and we are used to raise pots with hundred values... I will be really strange for us to bet or raise with a value of 2 or 2.5 instead of 200 or 250...

Don't forget my set will be 850 chips ( the new apache majestic ) It is the maximum I can buy for international shipping.

For tournament we can play like this : 10 euros = 10 000 chips... or 20 euros = 20 000 chips... or 15 euros = 15 000 chips... or even 20 euros = 10 000 chips ... it depends...

So could you accept the fact that we would play as mentionned in my initial post... but could you tell me what would be your distribution of values ? How many 25, how many 100, how many 500, how many 1000 and after that would you take the rest with 10 000, 15 000 or 20 000 chips ?

ps : again I thank you for the right cash and tournament proposition you made but I cannot think people will like it as we are used with more values...
 

Bloody Marvelous

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This is tough because the requirements for a cash set are different from a tournament set. Cash sets are usually more middle value heavy, and light on the lowest and highest values. Tournament sets are built around starting stacks and chips for coloring up.

Say you run T10,000 tournaments, then your smallest denomination is usually T25. With starting stacks of 12/12/3/7 for 10 players you're looking at 120x T25, 120x T100, 30x T500, 70x T1,000 for the starting stacks (340 chips total), plus some additional T500, T1,000, and T5,000 chips for coloring up. If you're running deepstack tournaments you'll need a couple more high denoms.

If you're playing 5¢/10¢ cash games and your chips are cents x 10, then you'd need 2 T25 chips for the SB. Apart from it being unorthodox to use 2.5¢ chips, it puts a strain on the required chips. You'd need to give each player 12 of T25s to prevent people from constantly needing to make change.

The 25¢ chip would normally be your workhorse, but because you're using T100 as 10¢, that job now goes to the T500 or 50¢ chip. You need only very few of those for the tournaments, but you're gonna need a bunch for the cash games.

For 10 player cash games I'd suggest:
T25 (2.5¢): 120 (12 per player = 30¢)
T100 (10¢): 220 (22 per player = € 2.20)
T500 (50¢): 150 (15 per player = € 7.50)

I'm not sure what a recave is, but I'm assuming it's a rebuy. I'm unsure if you will also hold rebuy tournaments, so I'll assume these are just for the cash games. You don't need to get more low denoms in play, so doing rebuys with higher denoms is fine. Something like 10x T500 (€ 5) and 5x T1,000 (€ 5) per player is enough. Depending on how many rebuys you expect you'll need to add more of these high denominations.

So here's the basis for what you need :
120x T25
220x T100
150x T500
70x T1,000
560 chips total.

If you're expecting 10 rebuys, theoretically you'd need an additional 100x T500 (50¢) and 50x T1,000 (€ 1), though you could also color up players with big stacks. But we'll say an additional 150 chips for cash game rebuys, which makes it 710 chips total for a bank of € 270.

The remaining 140 you could fill with additional T1,000 (€ 1) and T5,000 (€ 5) chips. I'd recommend getting mostly T5,000 chips since you regularly have players with € 60 / € 70 stacks.
 

atomiktoaster

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Yeah, no problem if your game has a flow that people are used to.

125 x 25
125 x 100
100 x 500
300 x 1000
200 x 5000

Tournament starting stacks would be 12/12/5/6. Rebuys would be in 1000s and 5000s.

The cash workhorse actually should be the 1000, I think, given stack sizes that are near 60k. Am I overestimating the size of the game (or at least the option to grow it?).
 

Xtadeus

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Yes people are used to that flow... We raise 250 we reraise 800.... In fact at the beginning we were playing 5 euros = 5000 chips... then we switched 10 euros = 5000 chips... and now I want better chips ;-) more professional ( APACHE ¨^^^^^^) and be able to give 10 euros = 10 000 chips then.( easier to calculate and we do it as I said with 0.50 cent not more... like 10,50 euros, 21,50 euros... depending of the amount of chips at the end of the game )

Sorry you will find I am obtuse...

I will try to understand what you wrote ( as we play cash and tournament with same chips )

so you wrote :

125 x 25
125 x 100
100 x 500
300 x 1000
200 x 5000

total 850 chips

what will be your division for each guy ?


My calculation was : with blinds of fixed 50-100

264 x 25
264 x 100
242 x 500
66 x 1000
7 x 10 000 ( to give to chip leaders at the table to create new stack with normal stack value, allowing new recaves again )
7 x 20 000 ( to give to chip leader at the table to create new stack with normal stack value, allowing new recaves again )

total 850 chips

each player would have :

12 x 25
12 x 100
11 x 500
3 x 1000

total : 38 chips

The important thing for me is to be able to handle 10 people with chips ( really ok with what I did ) + enough recaves ( 12 is really more than enough ) when they loose their stack.
With my calculation I have 12 possible recaves with same amount of starting chips and a few additional chips ( 14 left in total ) ( as 38 chips X 22 = 836 chips ) to give to chips leaders during the game ( to lighten their stack ) and get small values again to create new recave again for other people.

Seems to me that it is fine ( maybe as you said I have too many 500 chips and should increase the number of 1000 )

Cash game is really 99% of our play... tournament when we want to change a bit...but very rare... and I think than yes indeed with blinds moving up, that set would not really be appropriate ( too many small values for higher levels )

Thanks again for your advices and discussion. I appreciate it !
 
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atomiktoaster

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At the beginning of the night, you can start off with something like:

12 x 25
12 x 100
11 x 500
3 x 1000

But after all the players have chips, you don't need to give out any more 25s or 100s. They give you 10 euro, and you give them 10 x 500 and 5 x 1000 in chips, like Bloody said. To get the small denoms for blinds, they have to make change with other players at the table. Otherwise you get one or two players with a big stack of 25s that they never use for betting.

If you really only get something like 200 euro on the table total, you don't need the amount of 1000s and 5000s I proposed. The 1000 wouldn't be your "workhorse" chip either. You still want the set to cover a 500 euro bank at least though.
 

Xtadeus

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You are right. We already have this problem now .. some people after few hours have too many 25$ chips and they don't use them to bet ot try to put them in pots to discard from them ^^

We play with friends so generally with 10 euros buy in and rebuy we have something like 100-150 euros at the end of the night ( maximum ). Our meeting are done to have fun ^^ drink, and other things lol ;-) and of course play poker.

So I understand what you both write.

Small chips for the beginning is normal, but I have to correct the amount of them as it will be too many small chips after a while when stacks swell.

I did not see the message of bloody. I will read it carrefully ( cause as I said I am not perfect with english so it is not so easy for me to understand all the terms used ^^ ) and try to see if I have the same conclusion to get a good solution for the 850 chips set for cash game.

What is sure is that I agree with what you posted :

at the beginning of the night I can consider I need

12 x 25
12 x 100
11 x 500
3 x 1000

and this multiplied by 10 for 10 people.

it only remains to find the rest :)

ps= what do you mean by "workhorse" please ?
ps2 : to answer bloody , when we play tournament, we only allow on rebuy ( or addon for those who haven t lost their stack ) in the first 1hour and 30 minutes... let's say someone has lost after three hands... bad luck : QQ vs AA... he is allowed to make ONE rebuy ( the first one hour and 30 minutes ).. If he loose again, it is finished.
The other people who have played during 1hour and 30 minutes without loosing can buy an addon to continue the game after. Not mandatory but everybody does it.
ps3 : during cash game we often have between 5 and 8 rebuy I would say... sometimes less sometimes more... depends on the state of the players ;-)
 
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Bloody Marvelous

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The workhorse chip is the chip that will be used most for betting.

The T25 chips will be used only for the SB.
The T100 chips will be used mainly for the BB and preflop betting.
The T500 and T1,000 chips will be used most after the flop, turn and river.
 

Xtadeus

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yes ;-)

I read your message Bloody and I agree with it.

So if I make a small summary and get it correctly :

Tournament :
-------------------

I need at least : ( for 10 people around the table )

120 x 25
120 x 100
30 x 500
70 x 1000

each player would get :

12 x 25
12 x 100
3 x 500
7 x 1000

Cash :
----------

I need at least ( for 10 people around the table )

120 x 25
220 x 100
150 x 500

each player would get :

12 x 25
22 x 100
15 x 500

Chips in total : 120+220+150+70 = 560 chips.

Then the rebuy : ( for 10 people )
----------------------------------------------
100 x 500
50 x 1000

Chips in total : 560 + 150 chips = 710 chips.

The last 140 chips ( 1000 and 5000 )
-----------------------------------------------
What would you think about :

100 x 5000
40 x 1000

Would make this total ( to handle cash and tournament then )

120x25
220x100
250x500
160 x 1000
100 x 5000


Am I right ? Would it be perfect to play ? ;-)
 
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Xtadeus

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I think that would probably suit your needs best.

And don't forget tor post pr0n when you get them :).

1) First of all I wanted to thank you and atomik for the advices ! I would have made mistakes if I had purchase by myself ;-)

2) What do you mean by don't forget to post pr0n when you get them ? pr0n = pictures ? ( I will take the Apaches Majestic )

3) Just a very last question concerning the chips. Are you sure I don't need a little bit more of 25$ value chips ? ( it is just the correct number to play with 10 people ) ( 6 round table with Small Blind and no 25$ anymore )

4) What do you think about the division I made for the last 140 chips with 1000 and 5000 ? Would you do the same ? ( we quite like to get a big mountain of chips in front of us when playing cash or tournament ^^ We hide behind our wall lol ^^ )

5) I think I will take 25$ in green, 100$ in black, 500$ in orange, 1000$ in yellow, 5000$ in white ( blank with label with auto adhesive then )
 

Bloody Marvelous

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Pr0n is loads of sexy pictures of your chips. Everybody loves pr0n :)

If you want to buy a couple more $25 chips you should do it. It can't hurt to have a few extras in case you ever lose one.

As for the last 140 chips I think 40/100 is probably what I would go for myself, maybe 60/80. Just make sure you have enough in the bank for your cash games. You don't wanna hafta tell someone that he can't rebuy anymore because you have no chips left.
 

Xtadeus

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Pr0n is loads of sexy pictures of your chips. Everybody loves pr0n :)

If you want to buy a couple more $25 chips you should do it. It can't hurt to have a few extras in case you ever lose one.

As for the last 140 chips I think 40/100 is probably what I would go for myself, maybe 60/80. Just make sure you have enough in the bank for your cash games. You don't wanna hafta tell someone that he can't rebuy anymore because you have no chips left.

According to what I read, chips would not be available before november if I pre purchase them soon.

Of course I will make pictures and show the chips when I get them ^^

For the moment I can handle a table of 10 people ( we play 10e = 5000 chips ) and I have 14g lazer 500 chips and 300 chips ( I made a mix with both suitcases ) But now it is time to go for a more professional set of poker chips ;-)

so it could be 850 chips ( maximum to be shipped internationally ) ( tell me if you agree with that ? or tell me directly what you do yourself will be easier lol ^^ )

124 x 25 ( I added 4 more ( 4*25 )
220 x 100 ( no change )
250 x 500 ( no change )
120 x 1000 ( no change )

and for the 136 chips left to choose :

38 x 1000
98 x 5000

Total would be :

124 x 25$
220 x 100$
250 x 500$
158 x 1000$
98 x 5000$


Are you oki with this ? ;-)

ps : for the bank I think that for cash I have more than enough... ( If my calculation is correct )

Even if we play with 10 people ( max for the table we use ) ( 100 000$ in chips are engaged )

I have still 690 100$ left ( 850 chips = 790 100$ ) of rebuy for the whole table... It makes +ou- 69 rebuy ( really more than enough ) we are between 5 and 10 rebuy maximum each poker night we play.
 

Xtadeus

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Last post I guess I have finished my mail to all the players who are with me ;-)

So I made some mistakes ^^ Here is the final result and Bloody I want to read a "looking good' again after my post ahah ^^

Division for 850 chips :
----------------------------------
122 x 25$ ( 2 extra chips in case of break or loss ) ( 3050$ )
222 x 100$ ( 2 extra chips in case of break or loss ) ( 22 200$ )
250 x 500$ ( 125 000$ )
158 x 1000$ ( 158 000$ )
98 x 5000$ ( 490 000$ )
Total : 850 chips with a total of 798 250 $

For a cash game with 10 people ( Blinds T50 T100 ) => ( 120xT25$ - 220xT100$ 150xT500$ ) each player will get :

12 x 25$
22 x 100$
15 x 500$

10 players : 100 000$ engaged. We have 698 250$ left to deal with rebuy ;-) more than enough.

For a tournament game with 10 people ( blinds starting at T25 T50 ): ( 120xT25$ - 120xT100$ - 30xT500$ - 70x T1000$ ) each player will get :

12 x 25$
12 x 100$
3 x 500$
7 x 1000$

Here are the colors I intend to take :

25$ = green
100$ = blue or black ( don't know yet )
500$ = orange
1000$ = yellow
5000$ = white

599060001.jpg


376216002.jpg


Is that ok ? May I do the payment lol :) ?

Again a big big thank you for your help !
 

atomiktoaster

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Unless I am mistaken, the Majestically will be sold in rolls of 25 pieces, no?

Most likely based on past china clay sales, but unconfirmed I think. Any reason why this wouldn't work, if that's the case?

125 x 25$ ( 2 extra chips in case of break or loss ) ( 3050$ )
225 x 100$ ( 2 extra chips in case of break or loss ) ( 22 200$ )
250 x 500$ ( 125 000$ )
150 x 1000$ ( 158 000$ )
100 x 5000$ ( 490 000$ )
 

Xtadeus

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I don't know about the rolls of 25.

On the site it is written : Enter the number of chips and denominations in the "Special Instructions" box on the Check Out page.

So I don't know : ( it is true that the calculation of Atomiktoaster is easier and I still have extra chips of 100 and 25 in case of )

First case
----------------
122 x 25$ ( 2 extra chips in case of break or loss ) ( 3050$ )
222 x 100$ ( 2 extra chips in case of break or loss ) ( 22 200$ )
250 x 500$ ( 125 000$ )
158 x 1000$ ( 158 000$ )
98 x 5000$ ( 490 000$ )

total = 798 250$

Otherwise like Atomiktoaster wrote :

Second case:
--------------------
125 x 25$ ( 5 extra chips in case of break or loss ) ( 3125$ ) ( 250 25$ label denomination )
225 x 100$ ( 5 extra chips in case of break or loss ) ( 22500$ ) ( 450 100$ label denomination )
250 x 500$ ( 125 000$ ) ( 500$ label denomination )
150 x 1000$ ( 150 000$ ) ( 300$ label denomination )
100 x 5000$ ( 500 000$ ) ( 200$ label denomination )

Total = 800 625$

Do you prefer the second solution ? You think it will be easily accepted when ordering them ? For me I could say I like the atomik proposition ;-)
 

atomiktoaster

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Because the chips are probably going to be shrink wrapped in stacks of 25, they might be safer from damage during shipping if you ordered them in complete stacks. Plus it's a little easier to count round numbers at the end of the night.
 

Xtadeus

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You are right and made a point with thos stack of 25 : better protection from damages !!!

Let's go ! It is nearly time to order ;-) and I will post this summary on the apache forum ;-)

BTW : may I ask you if you know good trusted internet sites to buy :

1) Good deck of plastic cards ( I think Apache sell them too - Modiano Cristallo 7,50$ for one )
2) a VERY GOOD automatic shuffler ( people playing with us are not real pro when mixing the cards... I think a shuffler could be top to use )
3) I am looking for a beautiful well designed card protector ( for me... to show I am the boss ^^ )
4) Good tshirt - Sweat - Hooded Jacket on the theme of Poker of course
5) A good Box for those 850 chips ( $35.00 on apache site for 1000 chips... )

Thank you very much.
 
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atomiktoaster

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You'll want to find a European source for most of that stuff. Shipping will be too much otherwise. Some of the Euro members here might be able to help, and you can search for old threads too.

1. Cards are a personal preference thing. Modiano, Fournier, Copag and others have their fans.
2. There might not be such a thing as a good automatic shuffler on the home market. Even the $1000 shuffle tech units have compaints. Get nice cards and have everyone watch a video like this:
. With nice plastic cards and a table surface with some padding, a good riffle isn't very hard.
5. Most people here will recommend bird cage cases over aluminum briefcase style cases. Especially with that many chips, the cheap ones may break and spill your chips. There's plenty of threads on the topic here and elsewhere.
 
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