Nano Stakes Player Complaints (3 Viewers)

Hairy_Crocodile

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Hey everyone! Hope you are having a wonderful day today.

I have an interesting few gripes and complaints from my Sunday nano stakes players. Since I believe that listening to your players is one of the most important parts of hosting, I wanted to ask you all for your opinions on how to properly handle these complaints.

Note that these players are all very casual, are not versed in poker etiquette, lingo, strategy, etc. It's a VERY casual group of people. Because of this, I have a hard time explaining some things to them. I constantly am having to remind people of blinds, tell people to stop reaching for the pot when its not pushed to them, splashing the pot, acting out of turn, etc. They like to play cards as a way to see each other once a week and socialize, which I dont mind at all. When they complain about poker and other player's play, it does make me giggle a little.

We play a one table $10 tournament first and the go into a 10c/25c cash game after. They still go crazy and play weird during the tournament, but they seem to behave more during that portion than in cash. They all last wayyy longer in the tournament.

So, I'll list off their complaints and delve into them in more detail after.
  1. Some hate how the cash game we do lasts forever and people just buy in multiple times constantly. This player also is the one who bought in ~10 times in one night and was close to not playing any more. People blow through their stacks in cash for some reason.
  2. They do not like buy ins of more than $20. When people lose 2-3 buy ins, they are very upset. And after the night we had a $200+ pot I scooped in a 4 way all in (My set of 9's vs a weak paired Ace and two straight draws), they talked about lowering stakes even more so we don't have a night like that again. One player folded the winning hand QX preflop when I 3 bet to some large number. She was so angry she took a break.
  3. Many of them complain that raising does nothing, as a standard 3x/4x raise gets calls from every player at the table. Most of which all have marginal garbage. We had an open to $1, call, Raise to $5.50 and 5 players all called. The best hand was a weak pair of queens... Other hands, a 3x raise gets everyone to fold, or a $1 bet on the flop gets folds, where a $4 bet wont. SOme people will open to $3-$5 pre in this 10c/25c game and get multiple callers.
  4. Within a few hands, we already have 100BB+ pots, and players on the flop are betting like $5 in a 10c/25c game with 92. I love this part of the game personally, but they hate parts of it.
  5. People keep any two cards and either get mad they are beaten by garbage (when they, in fact, also are playing garbage all the time), or get mad that their garbage didnt win and for some reason criticize other's play.
  6. Some will lose their first bullet and stop playing if they are felted. Rarely will some buy in more than twice.


I don't know how to please them. They want to play for fun (nothing wrong with that period) and for low stakes, but are the most fearless people at the same time. They are very spewy players that just fire huge barrels at each other.




In hand 2 of the night, we had 2 players chop up a huge pot and they both doubled up from it.

That game is so swingy, we had one guy buy in twice within the first 20-30 minutes.
One night at these stakes, I bought in for $40 total and walked away with $384

In the 2nd to last hand, I had AA, Raised to $4 to punish the calling stations and get all the dead money in the middle. I get a call
Board is :8h: :8d: :2c:. I C bet, get a call. Turn is the :7c:, I have less than a pot sized bet left, I shove and get called by :9h: :2d: and double up...

We had a board of 7QJQJ and the guy with pockets 8's is firing huge barrels all 3 streets, I have no idea why the other players made it to the river to begin with, One guy was chasing a runner runner straight and didn't get there.

People will call 50BB shoves with middle pair and then get mad that they are beaten so far by top pair, but then yell and cheer when their 5 shows up on the turn for 2 pair.




I feel like alot of these issues are problems the players put themselves in.
-They play wayyy to many hands, calling bets all the time and bleed chips, then wonder why their stack is halfway gone already in the span of a button rotation.
-They don't think of raises in terms of big blinds or anything, they think "It's just a dollar" and go along with it.
-They chase everything, and I mean everything. I have bottom pair with J3? I'll float two streets for my jack...lololol
-They don't understand bet sizing. Watching them fire $5 bets at each other with middle pair is very entertaining, but again, they play for stacks and dont even realize it.
-No matter the stakes I have tried, they always are spewy and sticky.
-They do not have a grasp on position, hand selection, etc. I have tried to help in the past and explain these things to everyone, but it goes in one ear and out the other it seems.

Now, I love this game personally. I have so much fun, it's unreal. It is one of the most entertaining shows I get to witness weekly.
It's like watching 3 bildo's play each other some nights.

I am lowering the stakes to 5c/10c most likely to help with the cash portion of it. I have 2 racks of nickels on the way, that way, their dollars get stretched farther and people can have more bullets to play with.




SO I guess its time for the question:
How do I help this group maximize their fun and try to correct the behavior that is causing them to complain?

---Do I try again and really push hard to educate people on poker? How do I go about it? Nothing I have tried so far has stuck, and I do not want to come off as snobby by any means. I just don't know what to do when the issues they are having is because the players put themselves in these spots. They don't seem to care enough to listen, but care enough to complain about how others play.

---In addition to lowering stakes, do I try and learn limit games and teach them? Do I just introduce bet limits in general to keep the game going longer? I have no idea how to play limit games. I also have no idea what to make the bet limits to mimic what a normal NL 5c/10c game to be like. I also dont know if I need a new chip breakdown for that or not. I don't understand small bet/big bet, etc. Are there good write ups that explain these things barney style?




I just want my friends to enjoy themselves.
I play at the casino 1-2 times a week and have 3 other home games I play in a week as well. I get enough "competitive" poker to sate me.
I dont want to use this group for profit at all and don't mind losing multiple bullets here. How do I make sure they have the best time?
 
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Hairy_Crocodile

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Give them $200 for $20 and cash them out at the same 10/1 ratio. Play for .25/.50 and cap the streets. Their stacks will last a little longer.
I used one of my tournament sets recently and gave them large looking stacks to simulate playing a 10/20 game using $5, $25, $100, $500 chips and they still did the same thing unfortunately. I can try doing something like you suggested again.
 

Josh Kifer

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I agree, it's the strangest issue that I don't know how to solve minus just making the cash game portion fixed limit at this point.
I'd say your best bet is to raise the stakes to .25/.25. You can't bitch about raises not being respected when your raising dimes. Limit might work, but people will chase more.
 

Rakrul

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So I'm having a similar issue at my home game, but they all know basic poker theory - they're just very selective when to use it. We're playing equivalent to $.50/.50 and I will bump it to $.5/$1 shortly to avoid the very loose pre-flop play.

When you do raise the stakes they will protest wildly, so you pull out some printed pre-flop starting hands charts and say, if you want to survive you need to play a lot fewer hands. Too many people are upset because everyone plays waaay too many hands and it gets random. If you do that now, you'll lose twice as much - good luck with that.

You could also think about changing from NLHE to PLHE, or even 7 stud. 7 stud is really much more suited for beginners than NLHE ever was. NLHE was better for TV, that's why it gained popularity - against all odds really.

Or you could just start with an obnoxious high rake, so there's no chips for a big pot anymore. ;)
 

upNdown

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That’s amazing.
If these people don’t want to learn how to play poker, fixed limit is probably the only way to help them make their stacks last longer. But I promise you that then they’ll complain that they can’t go all in.
Good luck!
 

Hairy_Crocodile

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Also sounds like you players want to gamble it up and have fun but then complain about the losses after the fact. Have you tried to introduce games that are fun. limit split board circus games seems like the obvious choice here.
I actually just bought one of the 3d printed dice from @One Eyed Dollar

Hopefully they like th enew games. My fear is that they wont like them and want to go back to NLHE
 

Hairy_Crocodile

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I'd say your best bet is to raise the stakes to .25/.25. You can't bitch about raises not being respected when your raising dimes. Limit might work, but people will chase more.
Ironically, I started with those stakes, they do the same thing. 75c raise? pfffft CALLLLLL

I talked to two players about raising stakes, they both want to, but said the rest of the group may just stop playing all together if we do
 

JMC9389

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Fixed limit is the way to go here. If the game is social and everyone wants to have fun and gambol, chasing draws down four streets on every hand and having someone suck out on the river would annoy me personally, but may be fun for most in this group. Stacks will last longer and fixed limit teaches those that are willing and want to learn about hand values and equities throughout different games for a cheaper price than no limit rules.
 

Colquhoun

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It sounds like they look at poker like any other casino gambling game...get your money in and see what happens.
This is evident when you get players that groan when you preflop raise. They want to bet and see all the cards go to showdown, to see the “winner”. They look at preflop raising and 3bets as interfering.
I honestly don’t know how you change that mindset.
 

Hairy_Crocodile

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It sounds like they look at poker like any other casino gambling game...get your money in and see what happens.
This is evident when you get players that groan when you preflop raise. They want to bet and see all the cards go to showdown, to see the “winner”. They look at preflop raising and 3bets as interfering.
I honestly don’t know how you change that mindset.
I play in a 25c/50c game with a bunch of elderly folk from our bar poker league occasionally. They are all like that, and when you raise, they all bitch and moan, and then all call and crack your AK with K3o or 73s lol. Its a really easy game, it just sucks when they just chase with ATC and beat you over and over some days.

One lady in that group that drives me insane though is the most ridiculous calling station Ive ever met. She is a ATC player and never gets punished. She buys in for $20, calls every street for her runner runner flush/straight and gets it every time. She always walks away with ~$100 from busting players with garbage and its both hilarious and infuriating. I wish I had a fraction of her luck.

Then she talks trash to players like myself and others that play alot how the math doesnt matter and how it's stupid.
"Yeah? And what are the odds of me getting what I did"
"No more than 4%...nice hand"
"See, that math doesnt do you any good, we don't play like that"

"I have to call you, I'm just playing my cards" *Calls a 5x raise from the SB with A3o, gets her runner runner flush calling people over-betting the pot*

"I have a feeling about these, its my favorite hand" *shows K2c*

"I have a small blind special"

*Faces a huge 3 bet playing cash* "Gotta protect my blind"

"This is the worst hand ever, I never win with it" *limps with AK*
 

JMC9389

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I think AK not suited is a really overrated hand, but I wouldn't sweat it. She's going to give you your money back with interest if you keep sitting at the table with her over time.
 

SteveEH

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I would echo limit being way better for a social game. Normal limit buy ins are 25 big bets. In my game I ask players to buy in for 40 big bets so the probability of a calling station busting out early and breaking the game is low.
 

Hairy_Crocodile

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I think AK not suited is a really overrated hand, but I wouldn't sweat it. She's going to give you your money back with interest if you keep sitting at the table with her over time.
I usually triple up or more at that game, I just hate losing to her specifically
 

Mojo1312

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Eight words guaranteed to kill a NLHE home game filled with spewy pre-flop and post flop players:

Hey everyone, tonight we are playing fixed limit!
 

Irish

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Limit or spread limit. Or find a new game.....
 

tabletalker7

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Your players lack the discipline for cash games. You say you start out with a cheap tournament and everyone likes it, so why not run sit-and-gos all night? Keeps them in action longer, for cheaper, and let's them enjoy play while learning more about the discipline required for poker. You could even mix in a heads up tournament once in a while with a bracket on the wall to keep people engaged.
 

SteveEH

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Eight words guaranteed to kill a NLHE home game filled with spewy pre-flop and post flop players:

Hey everyone, tonight we are playing fixed limit!

My friends and I played NL for years. We switched and it's 50/50 of who prefers limit vs no limit but we all show up.
 
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