My chip milling/labeling journey (1 Viewer)

[arch3r]

I recently purchased a bunch of THC solids from @allforcharity with the plans to mill and label them, making myself a custom tourney set. Well my 1 table tourney set turned into a 40 person tourney set. I have plans on running charity tourney in my neighborhood. Plus I just like chips.

Anyway, I've seen many threads here with HowTos on milling. Seems easy enough.

Got a drill press

Rigged up with a jig

Let the milling begin...

Works fine enough. Tricky part it getting the chip perfectly centered. Notice above that I was off a bit.

Also notice that the center of the chip was not milled flat. You can still see part of the hot stamp. Seems the bit I was using is not flat. If I want to mill the center clean, I'm going to have to mill deeper than I want to on the sides. I can probably solve this with a better, flatter bit. But still this process is very time consuming. So it got me thinking. Could I use a CNC machine to do this. If set up and programmed correctly, it would be much more precise and I could do maybe an entire barrel at the same time.

Starting researching CNC machines for home use and found some relatively inexpensive ones. But I have no idea if they are just glorified toys or not. Still researching. But during this researching, I discovered that my local library has a CNC machine that anyone can use! I packed up some sample chips, my digital caliper and off I went.

This is the device they have. Super simple to use. The CAD software is basic, but then again, all I need is a circle. And it's precision is well better than my tolerances of 0.05mm. So I defined my circle, proper radius, location, mill depth, and secured the chip.

Press the go button and....

Oops. Screwed up the initial milling height. Anyone need a spare Lucky Derby $1, slightly used?


OK, fix that setting, load another chip and try again...

Worked great! About 20 seconds.
Still a little off center, that can be adjusted. And the mill is a bit rough, but I had it on the quick setting. A finer bit and a slower mill setting will fix that.

So now the task is to come up with a jig that will hold 15-20 chips securely in the exact position I need them and make it repeatable.

 

[Davism72]

Following! I also have free access to a CNC, but they won’t let me use it until I’m trained and they don’t offer training. Not sure what the next step is. Will probably fall back to using a press.

So cool to see your progress!

 

[Schmendr1ck]

I recently purchased a bunch of THC solids from @allforcharity with the plans to mill and label them, making myself a custom tourney set. Well my 1 table tourney set turned into a 40 person tourney set. I have plans on running charity tourney in my neighborhood. Plus I just like chips.

View attachment 249694

Anyway, I've seen many threads here with HowTos on milling. Seems easy enough.

Got a drill press
View attachment 249695

Rigged up with a jig
View attachment 249697

Let the milling begin...
View attachment 249698

Works fine enough. Tricky part it getting the chip perfectly centered. Notice above that I was off a bit.

Also notice that the center of the chip was not milled flat. You can still see part of the hot stamp. Seems the bit I was using is not flat. If I want to mill the center clean, I'm going to have to mill deeper than I want to on the sides. I can probably solve this with a better, flatter bit. But still this process is very time consuming. So it got me thinking. Could I use a CNC machine to do this. If set up and programmed correctly, it would be much more precise and I could do maybe an entire barrel at the same time.

Starting researching CNC machines for home use and found some relatively inexpensive ones. But I have no idea if they are just glorified toys or not. Still researching. But during this researching, I discovered that my local library has a CNC machine that anyone can use! I packed up some sample chips, my digital caliper and off I went.

This is the device they have. Super simple to use. The CAD software is basic, but then again, all I need is a circle. And it's precision is well better than my tolerances of 0.05mm. So I defined my circle, proper radius, location, mill depth, and secured the chip.

View attachment 249708

Press the go button and....

View attachment 249713

Oops. Screwed up the initial milling height. Anyone need a spare Lucky Derby $1, slightly used?


OK, fix that setting, load another chip and try again...
View attachment 249716

Worked great! About 20 seconds.
Still a little off center, that can be adjusted. And the mill is a bit rough, but I had it on the quick setting. A finer bit and a slower mill setting will fix that.

So now the task is to come up with a jig that will hold 15-20 chips securely in the exact position I need them and make it repeatable.

Have you considered using the CNC to make your jig? If you're thinking of something like a board with a bunch of circular holes, using the CNC would probably make it easier to keep your tolerances tight so that all your chips were well-centered every time.

Very interested in this idea, as I think there are one or two public-access CNCs near me also. I've got a mountain of chocolate Paulsons that are itching to become a custom limit set.

 

[BiGGyT]

Step 1, watch gear's videos
Step 2 send chips to Chris
Step 3. Profit

 

[arch3r]

Step 1, watch gear's videos

I've watched gear's video a few times. It's what first gave me the idea that maybe I could do that too.

Have you considered using the CNC to make your jig? If you're thinking of something like a board with a bunch of circular holes, using the CNC would probably make it easier to keep your tolerances tight so that all your chips were well-centered every time.

That is my thinking, using the CNC to make the base jig. Coming up with a way to secure the chips from spinning or popping out during milling, thats the trick. My current thinking is base hole milled to just larger than the chip. Something in the bottom of each hole to stop spinning and a buffer ( think the padding in an air-tite ) to keep the chip centered and secure. Then mill a second thin cover layer with slightly smaller holes. Large enough to not cover the milling area but small enough to cover the edge of the chip. And this layer will be thin enough as not to obstruct the milling. Now the chip is locked in, can't pop out and won't spin. We'll see if it works?

 

[Schmendr1ck]

I've watched gear's video a few times. It's what first gave me the idea that maybe I could do that too.


That is my thinking, using the CNC to make the base jig. Coming up with a way to secure the chips from spinning or popping out during milling, thats the trick. My current thinking is base hole milled to just larger than the chip. Something in the bottom of each hole to stop spinning and a buffer ( think the padding in an air-tite ) to keep the chip centered and secure. Then mill a second thin cover layer with slightly smaller holes. Large enough to not cover the milling area but small enough to cover the edge of the chip. And this layer will be thin enough as not to obstruct the milling. Now the chip is locked in, can't pop out and won't spin. We'll see if it works?

Honestly, I haven't worked with a CNC, so take everything I say with a huge shaker of salt.

I think if you use some sort of padding on the cover layer and clamp it down, you won't need the buffer ring. I have a mental picture of what I'm thinking, but I'm too tired to sketch it out.

 

[arch3r]

Honestly, I haven't worked with a CNC, so take everything I say with a huge shaker of salt.

I think if you use some sort of padding on the cover layer and clamp it down, you won't need the buffer ring. I have a mental picture of what I'm thinking, but I'm too tired to sketch it out.

1 hour messing around with the CNC in the library does not make me the expert by any stretch.

I hear what you are saying about the cover layer, but then the hole the chips sit in need to be almost exact the size of the chip otherwise how do you get the chip to sit perfectly centered? And chip diameters are not all the same. They can differ by a mm or more. So that hole will need to be big enough to accept the larger chip, but a slightly smaller chip will 'float' in the hole. My thinking is that the buffer ring will help center the chip regardless of its diameter. Make sense?

 

[Schmendr1ck]

1 hour messing around with the CNC in the library does not make me the expert by any stretch.

I hear what you are saying about the cover layer, but then the hole the chips sit in need to be almost exact the size of the chip otherwise how do you get the chip to sit perfectly centered? And chip diameters are not all the same. They can differ by a mm or more. So that hole will need to be big enough to accept the larger chip, but a slightly smaller chip will 'float' in the hole. My thinking is that the buffer ring will help center the chip regardless of its diameter. Make sense?

Perfect sense. The buffer ring is primarily for compensating for size variance (centering) rather than spin control.

Without doing something mechanical (like what we've seen in the couple of other milling threads floating around here), I think it's probably a good solution.

(At least I hope it is, because I might steal it later!)

 

[Amish Rabbi]

Find a down cut endmill/router bit to try and use the largest endmill you can in the machine.

With a down cut all you need to worry about is lateral forces and not the chip lifting

 

[arch3r]

Update.

Spent some time working out the details and how I wanted to build the jig for the CNC. Finally just decided to just cut holes into a 1/4 piece of MDF the size of an air-tite container and use the buffer ring in the air-tite to hold the chip center and secure.

So I got a piece of MDF, headed back to the local library, and mounted it in the CNC machine.

You can see my laptop with the jig cut out all ready to go. Then I milled the jig.

I was a little worried how it was going since the machine does not have a dust removal system. So all I could do was hope that the cuts were going well. You can see those bigger chips which had me concerned that I used the wrong bit or cut too fast and the MDF was ripping and not cutting. But all I could do was sit and wait until the process was complete. It took about 30 minutes to cut the 11 slots in the jig.

When it was done I removed the saw dust and SUCCESS! 11 perfect slots.

But now for the real test. Did I measure correctly? Would a chip with the buffer ring fit snuggly? Would it mill properly? You all saw how my first test went. So I fit the buffer ring and the chip in and it fit perfectly. Kinda like I almost knew what the hell I was doing.

Then I loaded the milling program, crossed my fingers hoping I would not have another chip with a hole in it. Press go and hold breath. 1 minute later, I have this...

A bit off center, but that is more because the chip is not 100% centered but I call that a win. Add a few more chips and run it again...

Had to re-run the blue chips. They were a tad bit thinner than the pinks and when you are milling 10ths of a millimeter, that tad bit matters. But I think it came out great. Way better than I expected for the first real run.

Next up, I am going to purchase a larger CNC machine for myself. Large enough so I can cut a jig that will hold up to a rack of chips at a time.

 

[toynoob]

Question are you saying bernys solids won't take a label without milling them?

 

[Beakertwang]

Question are you saying bernys solids won't take a label without milling them?

The excellent condition ones need to be milled for a label.

 

[arch3r]

Question are you saying bernys solids won't take a label without milling them?

I got good condition chips from him and they need milling to accept a label.

 

[toynoob]

The excellent condition ones need to be milled for a label.

I have the lower end ones, they will take a label Andrew without milling?

 

[toynoob]

I got good condition chips from him and they need milling to accept a label.

This makes me sad......

 

[Beakertwang]

I have the lower end ones, they will take a label Andrew without milling?

According to @allforcharity, the fair condition chips will take an unlaminated label.

 

[toynoob]

Sorry for thread jack, @arch3r your milling looks fantastic! Great job on figuring all that out. Way more patience than I have

 

[allforcharity]

According to @allforcharity, the fair condition chips will take an unlaminated label.

Yes, this works. @RoyalBluff 's Mad Dog tournament set were all done with "Fair" condition chips and unlaminated Gear labels. They turned out fantastic.

The key to whether a well-used hot stamp chip can take an unlaminated label without milling are two-fold:

1. Is the chip so well-used that the recess disappears entirely? If yes, then you will need to mill.
2. Is the existing hot stamp deep enough so you can feel the ridges and valleys of the foil design? If yes, then you will need to mill.

If you can answer "no" to both questions, then you have a chip that's ready to receive an unlaminated label without milling.

Likely, a significant portion of my "Good" condition chips could take an unlaminated label without milling. But I would not automatically recommend it without inspecting the chips for themselves.

Excellent to Near Mint hot stamps MUST be milled before accepting an aftermarket label. MUST MUST MUST.

Milling a chip, from whatever original state, gives a distinct advantage in that you can use a LAMINATED after market label, which is superior in terms of durability and design flexibility. They just cost more.

 

[allforcharity]

@arch3r , your CNC testing turned out great! I can't wait to see how you will do with your own mini-CNC. And then, of course, your label design for the bajillion chips you bought off me for your future charity poker tourney uses!

 

[BSteck]

Large enough so I can cut a jig that will hold up to a rack of chips at a time.

 

[RoyalBluff]

Likely, a significant portion of my "Good" condition chips could take an unlaminated label without milling. But I would not automatically recommend it without inspecting the chips for themselves.

This is an important point. Some of the fair condition chips do have the stamps unworn, and applying the un-laminated label will show through. The stamps need to be smooth out.

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

So where should I address my hotstamps to?

So happy for you that you’re doing this and can’t wait for more updates to come!

 

[BSteck]

You should do a Kickstarter-type campaign for your CNC purchase. First round of investors get a discounted rate for milling services.

 

[markleteenie]

Are you going to be doing shaped mills? I figure that's one of the benefits of a CNC.

 

[arch3r]

Are you going to be doing shaped mills? I figure that's one of the benefits of a CNC.

That would be relatively easy to do. But I have no means to produce shaped labels. Hell, I can't produce plain round labels.

 

[arch3r]

You should do a Kickstarter-type campaign for your CNC purchase. First round of investors get a discounted rate for milling services.

Not a bad idea, but I'm not doing this to make it a business, just a hobby. The cost to send out to mill the amount of chips I have, equates to a little less than half the cost of the setup I invision. Then I want to try making wooden racks, card cases, ... I'll eventually offer milling to others, but I don't have a time line and wouldn't feel right taking people's money if this venture takes months to get all set up or if it just fails completely.

 

[Lemonzest]

super impressed. local libaby has a CNC.

Gotta love that. I want to do something similar with THC solids I just dont trust myself to mill.

 

[Kasper Storrs]

Wow those turned out great! Excellent job. Clearly done a ton of research! Watching with keen interest...

 

[AWenger]

Great start! Loving it!

Question are you saying bernys solids won't take a label without milling them?

I got good condition chips from him and they need milling to accept a label.

According to @allforcharity, the fair condition chips will take an unlaminated label.

The key to whether a well-used hot stamp chip can take an unlaminated label without milling are two-fold:

For your discussion above, there's another factor that I didn't see anybody mentioned -- and that is the difference between the Long Cane Version (LCV) mold and the Short Cane Version (SCV) mold. and the recess in the center of chip, or lack thereof.

Something I've noticed fairly recently:

• Most (all?) LCV chips do not have a recess in the middle, the middle is at the same, higher, level as the face of the chip where the hat & cane mold are. So any LCV chips would not accept a label without milling.
• SCV chips do have a recessed/depressed inlay area in the middle, and if the hotstamp edges are worn flat in the middle, these SCV chips take an unlaminated label in the recess, without creating spinners, unless the chip is in really worn condition.
• Most of the Cal-Neva solid chips I have are SCV. But some are apparently LCV. It may depend on the colors-- I noticed the 3 pink ones in the jig above are LCV.

This chip is LCV:

This chip is SCV:

 

[allforcharity]

I find it very hard, if near impossible, to tell between the LCV and SCV. Is there something obvious that I'm not perceiving?