Musing the future of quality CLAY poker chips

KingZilla

Two Pair
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
391
Reaction score
69
Location
Louisiana
So Paulson is discontinuing the home market chips. T.R. KING is long gone. BCC is history. Now it seems CPC is the ONLY place to get real clay chips, made the "old fasioned" way and they are not cheap. Justifiably so.
Perhaps The Chip Room offering chips retired from casinos will be an option. His offerings have been few lately.
Although they are not REAL clay chips as we recognize them, China Clays may fill some of the gap, but they need improvements.
Other than CPC, where do we go from here? (Please don't say "ceramics").
 

stocky

Full House
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
4,291
Reaction score
3,277
Location
The Wall
Matsui is another option also. But high minimums and high shipping with a slippery feel is not for everyone.

We are lucky to have a hobby where custom is even an option, I say just enjoy the wave while we can and hope CPC is around for many more years.
 

BGinGA

Royal Flush
Tourney Director
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
24,003
Reaction score
35,364
Location
Atlanta
Relabeled Paulson chips are a viable option. Either thin vinyl labels, or milled-out chips using laminated labels. Definitely a set in my future.
 

Schmendr1ck

Full House
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
3,357
Reaction score
6,728
Location
Orlando, FL
Give Joe at PGI about $50K and you can start up your own shop, I think he still has some compression molding equipment for sale. :)
 

Poker Zombie

Royal Flush
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
11,943
Reaction score
20,269
Location
Nashville-ish
Relabeled Paulson chips are a viable option. Either thin vinyl labels, or milled-out chips using laminated labels. Definitely a set in my future.
I would not be surprised if the future of casino chips leans more toward either ceramics or giant inlays. Those are the hardest to counterfeit it would seem, and the rash of counterfeiting in the past year or 2 has caused a push for higher security (which I wonder if that is why everyone is backing away from the consumer-retail market).
 
Last edited:

Mr Tree

Straight Flush
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
7,930
Reaction score
12,058
Location
Roswell, GA
Viva la CPC!

I don't think anyone will disagree. It just gets scary being a chip enthusiast with fewer and fewer options out there.
 

KingZilla

Two Pair
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
391
Reaction score
69
Location
Louisiana
Where do you think they need to improve? I'd like to see an oversized chip or two and a shaped one as well--either hexagon or an octagon.
I was one of the first to proclaim the value of china clays. I was a huge proponent of them when I got my pyramids casino chips as those had spots that went all the way through the chip. Then either different manufacturers or techniques in China started with the edge spots that "wrap around" the center material. I did not like that. Also, as with all china clays I've had (and I've had many) the feel changes from that of a true clay chip. That is, they feel fantastic out of the wrapper, but with a few uses (skin oils and such) they become more slippery much more than a real clay chip with the same use. So by improvements, I mean spots that go all the way through and perhaps a tweaking to the material formula so they don't get lose their grip so quickly. And by the way that "formula" is not all that different from real clay chip material. There was a chemical analysis done on the other site by one of the members there (dunes china clays) and you can see they are not that far off. Perhaps the crosshatched version coming out from PGI on the CPS chips will make the difference.
 

Zippity

Two Pair
Joined
Nov 4, 2014
Messages
373
Reaction score
176
Location
Mukilteo, WA
Where do you think they need to improve? I'd like to see an oversized chip or two and a shaped one as well--either hexagon or an octagon.
An oversized chip option is great. That would be a start when considering a true custom design set of poker chips.
 

BGinGA

Royal Flush
Tourney Director
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
24,003
Reaction score
35,364
Location
Atlanta
I was one of the first to proclaim the value of china clays. I was a huge proponent of them when I got my pyramids casino chips as those had spots that went all the way through the chip. Then either different manufacturers or techniques in China started with the edge spots that "wrap around" the center material. I did not like that. Also, as with all china clays I've had (and I've had many) the feel changes from that of a true clay chip. That is, they feel fantastic out of the wrapper, but with a few uses (skin oils and such) they become more slippery much more than a real clay chip with the same use. So by improvements, I mean spots that go all the way through and perhaps a tweaking to the material formula so they don't get lose their grip so quickly. And by the way that "formula" is not all that different from real clay chip material. There was a chemical analysis done on the other site by one of the members there (dunes china clays) and you can see they are not that far off. Perhaps the crosshatched version coming out from PGI on the CPS chips will make the difference.

PGI china clay chips (interlocking-L mold) have always used a slightly different formula than other china clay chips. Unlike most mass-produced china clay chips, PGI supplies the raw material stock (which contains no recycled materials) to their manufacturer, which results in a chip with a slightly different sound and a more chalky feel. The new CPS chips should share those base material characteristics, although the new (different) mold and crosshatched surface will undoubtedly also have an effect on performance.
 

MoscowRadio

Flush
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
2,464
Reaction score
1,653
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I guess my question is: why doesn't Joe at PGI get into the clay business? I thought he did actual compression-molded solid clays at one time?
 

BGinGA

Royal Flush
Tourney Director
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
24,003
Reaction score
35,364
Location
Atlanta
Nope, Joe doesn't have the time, patience, or expertise needed to do compression clay chips correctly -- and knows it (also why the equipment is for sale). PGI has the equipment they purchased from Hispania, but ASM produced the scroll mold samples using PGI's mold cups and ASM materials.
 

tigon

Straight
Joined
Nov 4, 2014
Messages
784
Reaction score
198
Location
Canada
I guess my question is: why doesn't Joe at PGI get into the clay business? I thought he did actual compression-molded solid clays at one time?
I think the chips you're thinking of are the private cardroom china clays.
 

KingZilla

Two Pair
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
391
Reaction score
69
Location
Louisiana
PGI china clay chips (interlocking-L mold) have always used a slightly different formula than other china clay chips. Unlike most mass-produced china clay chips, PGI supplies the raw material stock (which contains no recycled materials) to their manufacturer, which results in a chip with a slightly different sound and a more chalky feel. The new CPS chips should share those base material characteristics, although the new (different) mold and crosshatched surface will undoubtedly also have an effect on performance.
Yes, I am looking forward to hearing reviews from those who bought the CPS chips. I have owned 1k of the PGI L mold chips. They were not that much different from the other china clays, except that they broke easier. Yep, broken or chipped. Thinking back on them, I do remember that they did stack better than other china clays.. the mold perhaps?
 
Last edited:

MoscowRadio

Flush
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
2,464
Reaction score
1,653
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I think the chips you're thinking of are the private cardroom china clays.
The chips I was thinking of are the ones BG pointed out: the scroll mold solids. I thought PGI had produced them, but apparently it was ASM that did them. I just remember seeing them on the PGI website at one time.
 

BGinGA

Royal Flush
Tourney Director
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
24,003
Reaction score
35,364
Location
Atlanta
Pretty sure that's a post-Vegas CPC thing (David could confirm). Sale or lease, dunno.
 

KingZilla

Two Pair
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
391
Reaction score
69
Location
Louisiana
Nope, Joe doesn't have the time, patience, or expertise needed to do compression clay chips correctly -- and knows it (also why the equipment is for sale). PGI has the equipment they purchased from Hispania, but ASM produced the scroll mold samples using PGI's mold cups and ASM materials.
Didn't know they still had the equipment. I think I may have read a post on CT speculating the members group buy the machines and make our own chips. Interesting concept, but feasible? I don't know.
 

BGinGA

Royal Flush
Tourney Director
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
24,003
Reaction score
35,364
Location
Atlanta
I think it's all at GPI's facility in Las Vegas. Passports prolly not required.
 

tigon

Straight
Joined
Nov 4, 2014
Messages
784
Reaction score
198
Location
Canada
Yes, I am looking forward to hearing reviews from those who bought the CPS chips. I have owned 1k of the PGI L mold chips. They were not that much different from the other china clays, except that they broke easier. Yep, broken or chipped. Thinking back on them, I do remember that they did stack better than other china clays.. the mold perhaps?

This is interesting to hear. They looked outstanding especially with the black labels but I never heard much regarding the feel and performance of them. There is a picture showing all of the PCR labeled- both edgespots solids I think- out there but it might be lost given whatever happened with Garyyon and Joe.



This is from Pinkerton at the other place.

 
Last edited:

BGinGA

Royal Flush
Tourney Director
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
24,003
Reaction score
35,364
Location
Atlanta


Those are not PGI interlocking-L mold chips. They are ProGen 80 chips (interlocking-J mold), made using an inferior mold and materials, and imported/distributed by
Trademark.

Here is a pic of the PGI mold:
 

tigon

Straight
Joined
Nov 4, 2014
Messages
784
Reaction score
198
Location
Canada
Oops. The colors are similar if not the same and I thought that was the right mold. I took that from an archived version of their site around the same time the PI PCRs started selling.
 

KingZilla

Two Pair
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
391
Reaction score
69
Location
Louisiana
For the time being there are still a few options for new CLAY chips (other than CPC), mostly remaining inventory. Apache has various Paulsons still available, Sidepot has white proteges left, Holdempokerchips has probably the best stock of remaining BCC chips. IMO they have a bargain on the Monterey Club chips at .79 each. The inlay may or may not be appealing, but they can be labelled. Samurai and Mardi Gras are still there too.
 

SuckoutKing

Straight
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
Messages
993
Reaction score
1,137
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan
Was a very sad day when BBC was sold. There went the last truly hotstampable clay chip. I should clarify that statement with the last chip that could be stamped with a high volume machine like the Malahide E4-PK. The hand pull hotstamper like Kingsley still have ASM chips. But the crispness of a design stamped with a Malahide machine can't be reproduced with a hand stamper.
 

Jeff

Full House
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
4,601
Reaction score
7,020
Location
Chicagoland
The odd thing is that with printing technology, I'd have figured that printing on a ceramic blank would be easy to counterfeit versus a clay compression chip.
 
Top Bottom