Marsh's Build

MarshMan114

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Hey Everyone,

I'm starting a new build and thought I'd document it here. It will probably be my 5th or so and I was looking for a little more of a challenge and might need some design ideas. I live within 30 minutes of a local casino, but Covid has shut it down and pushed everyone to home games. I sold my last table and am starting a new one.

My last table was a super down and dirty budget build. Our last house (rental) had no work space so I did this over a weekend.

IMG_3438.JPG


All our home games are pretty legit around here so my next build will have a dealer spot and cup holders in the rail. I've got a decent woodworking hobby/background and was looking for some sort of challenge. I was trying to think about how to incorporate a dovetail design somewhere but since I don't prefer a racetrack I couldn't come up with anything. I think instead I'm going to try my hand at a kidney bean shape. I've done lights before, but don't really want them in this build either.

However, I think I might add a little raised rail because I like how it makes the rail wrapping perfect. I also like having an exposed edge under the rail, but again, not real sure what to do with it yet. And I don't want to use 4 sheets of plywood if I can help it. Maybe edge banding? Either way, that's a problem for future me!

So all my builds start with the base. Unless I get commissioned for a 'perfect' table I usually wait and get a good deal on a craigslist table and go from there. So I've been scouring and found this gem for $40.

20200527_213316.jpg


I'd prefer claw feet, but these will clean up nicely.

I usually go with volera 1/4" from Your Auto Trim with unsuited speed cloth, but we have some Diva dealers who think it's 'too rough' so I might try out Chanman and some custom cloth. I've got a super cool idea (in my head) but I'm not sure if it's executable like I want. I have a back up design though which should be easy enough. My favorite beer is Guinness and I just love their logo. So if my first idea (can't spoil it yet) doesn't work out I was thinking Guinness custom felt and a 'cream' colored rail to tie it together.

Aside about Your Auto Trim. I always went with speed cloth, but the person who bought that table above wanted softer felt. I ordered and refelted with Reno Suede and it's unplayable. Cards don't slide and you can't sweep them up at all. Super surprised they would even advertise that as a playing surface. Is there any place to get actual gaming suede for cheap? Anyone try the velveteen from American Gaming Supply?

Up next will be the kidney design and hopefully people can help me think through a few things.

Marsh
 

CraigT78

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You can't go wrong with a Chanman felt. Nothing better IMO.
 

StatTracker

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How large was your dealer cutout and how far in did you put the tray?

I try and stay away from Volera for playing surface and rail because it leaves permanent indents if you leave weight on it overnight. Speedcloth is definitely not a great material for professional dealers since it does not grip the cards nearly as well as other materials, it's only good for self-pitched games. I don't like the velveteen (haven't tried from your specific link) because the fibers are longer than microsuede and ultrasuede.

For cupholders in the railing, I mark and cut the wood before anything else. Once foam and upholstery is applied, it's easy to turn the railing upside down and use a pair of sharp scissors to cut through the foam and fabric to get the right spacing for each cup.
 

MarshMan114

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So the shape of the rail is going to be the cornerstone of the build so I'm taking my time making sure I like it.

The 'long' side of the rail is going to be an ellipse and depending on how much you paid attention in high school you know that an ellipse has 2 foci. (A circle only has one.) So I put 2 screws in and used a piece of string to make sure the curve was tangential at 12 o'clock and 3 and 9 o'clock. I used a pencil in the string to draw a big arc.

20200530_094957.jpg


Sorry it's hard to see. Closer view.

20200530_095006.jpg


Then I needed round curves to finish out the bottom portions. I searched around and found an image that Chanman created and used his dimension of 21" for the outside diameter. This seems to tie in nicely to my arc.

Had to create my fancy circle jig. I'm sort of a crazy perfectionist and there is not a whole lot more satisfying than creating a good jig.

20200530_093702.jpg


20200530_112107.jpg

Oh I'm sure YOUR perfect and can get it first try. :) I gotta dial that stuff in.
 

MarshMan114

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From there I want about a 6" rail width since I'm using large/jumbo cup holders in it. This one stumped me for a little while as it wasn't incredibly clear how to make a concentric ellipse that was just 6" smaller at every point. I ended up just making a mark at 3 and 9 o clock and then creating new foci points that cross those points. Worked out well and only lost 7/8" at the top. (Second pic)

20200530_104329.jpg


20200530_104337.jpg


Most normal people would then utilize a jig saw (which I have) to make this cut, but as I said I'm crazy and wanted to see if I could make a smooth cut using the router and string system. There is this random screw in the router base that I hooked to the string and I tried to carefully draw an arc with it. (Router was off). I just couldn't get it consistent so I knew it would be almost impossible with the thing on. I will come back to earth and use a jig saw when it's time.

20200530_102904.jpg


Next I made my 21" diameter cirlcles. These are pretty standard so I make a small depth cut (1/32") to just scrape the surface. You can see where it ties in nicely to the pencil arc.

20200530_101738.jpg


I moved the router in 6" and made the inside scrape as well.
 

MarshMan114

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The I made a 6" diameter block to try and find where this rail will end. I drew out a 24" dealer section to try and get some of the proportions. This is where I'm just not a good designer. I usually try and find random lines and hope it works out. So on the 'outside' of the dealer area I drew a line and stopped it tangentially to it.

20200530_111253.jpg


I have no idea if this is the best point and would take any pointers. I tried to picture the chip tray (slightly bigger than the cardboard) and how much will be cut out for the dealer and what I'm going to do with that surface. Any thoughts??

Sorry, for the life of me I couldn't get this last one to rotate and save.

20200530_112756.jpg
 

MarshMan114

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I looked through some of the Table Pron threads (I hope reposting is allowed) and like how the dealer spot has a smaller rail here. But I'd want mine in more I think.

Table 1.jpg


I also LOVE the edge showing between the rail and playing surface and under the bottom of the rail like this:

Table 3 Edges.jpg


And @T_Chan is a master of his form. It will take me some time to figure out how to make this corner so clean.

InkedTable 4_LI.jpg
 

T_Chan

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It's easy to do a corner... after about 300 rails experience it's a piece of cake. Especially with leather which table has. Leather is softer than vinyl, but doesn't have as much stretch.
 

MarshMan114

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Alright I need some crowd sourcing ideas. My idea for the felt is a watch theme. I love high end watches (can't afford them, but love them none the less!) and was trying to figure out how to incorporate it.

I cut the rail so you can see the shape. I put the cardboard to sort of represent the chip tray. So how can I incorporate a watch?
20200602_190733.jpg


At first I was thinking to have the betting line/inner area be the skeleton and the outside be the face. Then I thought the 2 'circle' areas could be the complications with the hands starting just above the chip tray.

a.-lange-_-sohne-1815-annual-calendar-moonphase-men_s-18kt-rose-gold-watch-238.032.jpg


Then I thought a full watch face on the left circle and the movement (back of the watch) on the right circle. But I don't know how to tie it all together.
A-Lange-Sohne-Datograph-Perpetual-Tourbillon-Pink-Gold-Dial-salmon-SIHH-2019-1.jpg


Gah! Any ideas?? It's like trying to put a round peg in a kidney bean hole...or something like that.
 

MarshMan114

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Tried to get some work done this weekend and ran into some issues.

My 8 year old Craftsman router started smoking and almost caught fire as I was trying to make the under rail. I found a replacement on FB Marketplace and I think I avoided some life tilt dealing with this guy.

Him: Router for sale $122. (New it's $160)
Me: He could you do $80 and I can get it today.
Him: No
Me: Would you do $100?
Him: What about $105 and we can do it today.
Me to wife: OMG I can't stand people.
Me: Fine. Let's meet halfway, about 25 minutes for each of us.
Him: No I really can't travel that far for $100.
Me to wife: Dodged a bullet here for sure.

I went to Lowe's and they had 1 on the shelf and it wasn't the combo plunge/fixed so I guess I'll have to wait.
Also waiting on info for the custom cloth. Can't really purchase my rail vinyl until I know what color scheme everything will be and would like to purchase the cup holders, dealer tray, and padding all at the same time.

Started perusing the poker chip section since I only have a 500 chip Full Tilt Poker (bought with FTP points back in the day!) and man those guys are gross! Some beautiful chips but I'm way too cheap to even consider most of them. But maybe if this table is killer I can justify getting some good entry level chips. I still need chairs too...

Marsh
 

MarshMan114

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Picked up a Bosch combo router this week and started making some more dust.

Cut out the playing surface where the custom felt will wrap around.
20200613_134938.jpg

Then the lower rail will cover the ends of everything.
20200613_135027.jpg

And will bolt up into the riser/upper rail. Only the upper rail will be padded and upholstered so you'll see a 3/4" piece of plywood. I've bought some oak veneer that will probably go along that inner edge unless I can think if another cool 'watch item' that can add some flavor. I was thinking leather/vinyl might be a cool touch to pick up watch band accents. But we shall see.

20200613_135114.jpg

You can also see the faint lines for the dealer tray. My thinking is to have the felt go through the 24" line just under the tray and then use an upholstered piece of trim to cover the lower rail where the dealer sits. I can't tell yet if I want to wrap the edge with vinyl or keep it exposed and use the veneer.

And another random process pic. In order to separate the lower rail from the playing surface you can cut any random way since it will all be under the rail anyways. But that of course would be too easy so instead I used some random washers and screws to create a jig. I just push the router inward as I go along and the screws provide a guide for me.
20200613_133739.jpg


It was a little slow going at first, but I got approval from Chanman Tables that they can custom make my felt. So I'm sending them payment today and we can hopefully get everything going this coming week.

Marsh
 

MarshMan114

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So there was a very big delay on a couple of items, but I'm back with all my materials and should have a long update soon. But in the mean time, does anyone have a step by step on how to create a 'split' in the rail vinyl? I have a couple of pictures above where the top rail is covered and the raised rail is either lighted or decorative. I have no idea how to create this. I took a picture of my best thought (sans padding) but it's just not correct. Do you fold it over and staple from the backside?? Does it matter that my upper rail and lower rail are the same size? You can see where I'm trying to add the edge banding.

20200820_172619.jpg


If I wrap everything under the top rail and then cut a slit and carry down on the lower rail, it has a gap that the padding would poke through. I don't mind stapling the front and killing the edge banding just over the exposed staple, but that is not what is going on in the tables I posted earlier. HELP!

Marsh
 

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Tried to get some work done this weekend and ran into some issues.

My 8 year old Craftsman router started smoking and almost caught fire as I was trying to make the under rail. I found a replacement on FB Marketplace and I think I avoided some life tilt dealing with this guy.

Him: Router for sale $122. (New it's $160)
Me: He could you do $80 and I can get it today.
Him: No
Me: Would you do $100?
Him: What about $105 and we can do it today.
Me to wife: OMG I can't stand people.
Me: Fine. Let's meet halfway, about 25 minutes for each of us.
Him: No I really can't travel that far for $100.
Me to wife: Dodged a bullet here for sure.

I went to Lowe's and they had 1 on the shelf and it wasn't the combo plunge/fixed so I guess I'll have to wait.
Also waiting on info for the custom cloth. Can't really purchase my rail vinyl until I know what color scheme everything will be and would like to purchase the cup holders, dealer tray, and padding all at the same time.

Started perusing the poker chip section since I only have a 500 chip Full Tilt Poker (bought with FTP points back in the day!) and man those guys are gross! Some beautiful chips but I'm way too cheap to even consider most of them. But maybe if this table is killer I can justify getting some good entry level chips. I still need chairs too...

Marsh

Nice build.... you can't really expect him to do half the driving after he reduced the price that much.... Glad you found a router local...
 

T_Chan

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I'd like to give you a hand, but I don't understand the photo. Is the bottom of the vinyl cut vertically?
 

MarshMan114

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Its just a test piece. Since I didn't know how it was done, I assumed you had to wrap the top rail all around and then when you wanted it to cover the top amd bottom piece you had to make a split to carry it down.

I guess my basic question is how do I wrap the top rail amd expose the lower rail (where I can add the iron on vanding) and then cover the last portion of bottom rail. I circled the corner in a picture above 2huch I'm trying to match.
 

MarshMan114

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Here is a better picture I guess. I want the lower rail (where it will be on top of the playing surface) to have the veneer until the pencil line. I just don't know how to transition from wrapping the top half and then go straight down to cover all of the rail along the curve.

20200821_190442.jpg


And not sure what you mean Rebalwork about the plywood.
 

MarshMan114

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No I haven't noticed that being an issue with any of my builds. What would you use if you don't use plywood?
 

Rebelwork

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I've never used construction grade materials for a build before. But now that I'm out of cabinet making business I have to put in an order for a certain amount of material to get free dilivery and I don't want to drive 45 miles to their building. I only needed a a couple sheers so I went to Menards and purchased sande plywood...

Just curious if there had been problems...
 

MarshMan114

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I've never used construction grade materials for a build before. But now that I'm out of cabinet making business I have to put in an order for a certain amount of material to get free dilivery and I don't want to drive 45 miles to their building. I only needed a a couple sheers so I went to Menards and purchased sande plywood...

Just curious if there had been problems...


I see. Yeah B/C grade sanded plywood is the cheapest I'll go and even then I'll sand the surfaces and use wood putty for any nicks that are too deep. If I were to do a racetrack I would obviously use cabinet grade, but otherwise I'm happy with saving a few bucks on sanded. Especially these days when plywood prices are through the roof.
 

Rebelwork

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Years ago Home depot was selling 3/4 chinese birch for $25 a sheet. Good buy. I was considering building poker tables after hours and bought a bunch of the plywood. I cut out I think 6 tables.Seemed like the craze was over and I got caught up hour wise at the furniture shop and stopped working on them..Anyway I eventually gave them away. Look at me know several years later buying poker materials... I need a crystal ball to read my future...
184536121_pokerblank.jpg.6998afb2fcee28b828d339bcb8c1569e.jpg
 

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Him: Router for sale $122. (New it's $160)
Me: He could you do $80 and I can get it today.
Him: No
Me: Would you do $100?
Him: What about $105 and we can do it today.
Me to wife: OMG I can't stand people.
Me: Fine. Let's meet halfway, about 25 minutes for each of us.
Him: No I really can't travel that far for $100.
Me to wife: Dodged a bullet here for sure.

If I was on the other end of that attempted transaction I would have flat out ignored you from the beginning. Your wheeling and dealing is incredibly annoying from a seller's perspective.

Me: Some random is offering just 50% for my brand new router. Uh.. F no.

Random: How about a slightly less insulting offer?

Me: I can do $X instead if you come pick it up today.

Random: OK, deal. But it's too far for me (even though I knew from the beginning where you were located). Want to meet halfway?

Me to myself: Delete conversation. Block random.
 

MarshMan114

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If I was on the other end of that attempted transaction I would have flat out ignored you from the beginning. Your wheeling and dealing is incredibly annoying from a seller's perspective.

Me: Some random is offering just 50% for my brand new router. Uh.. F no.

Random: How about a slightly less insulting offer?

Me: I can do $X instead if you come pick it up today.

Random: OK, deal. But it's too far for me (even though I knew from the beginning where you were located). Want to meet halfway?

Me to myself: Delete conversation. Block random.

But I'd be ok with your auto ignore too. For me, the used tool market is 50% off retail. Any deal that's better (cheaper) is probably broken and anything more and I'd rather pay for the confidence that I can return it if it sucks and guarantee that all the extra parts are included.

My comment about this particular seller was that tacking on $5 generally means you are unreasonable and hard to deal with. But perhaps to your point, maybe my offers insulted him and he was trying to needle me on purpose. Either way my point still stands that we were not going to have a friendly agreement based on the back and forth so probably better for both parties to look elsewhere.
 

TheDuke

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I should have added, I'm loving this thread. I love seeing table builds and this one is looking great.

Can't wait to see the final build!
 

Rebelwork

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It happens. I've bought and sold a lot of power tools.it happens.

Getting ready to have a yard sale with several tools in it. Clamps, routers, etc. I'm sure the woodworking guys are gonna be cheap. It's their nature...
 

legonick

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Beautiful work! What do you charge for a “simple” build? ;)

Seriously though - have you considered offering your services?
 

Rebelwork

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This table I sold for $399...Made 2. Sold one and traded the other for PING golf clubs...I'll trade if it's fair...Profits are based on volume, not one
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