marked cards - how to protect

Pinball

Flush
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
2,242
Reaction score
1,911
Location
Eggenwil / Switzerland
I heard that there are some cards which have painted their value on its backside. the cheater can see the value with a spec. sunglasses or contact linces.

Is there a way to protect that? I cant tell my poker friends that we just use my cards.
 

brains613

Flush
Joined
Nov 4, 2014
Messages
1,441
Reaction score
911
Location
Virginia Beach
Of course you can. Is this a game you run? If so, then you control the cards. If it's an issue, just use cheap decks and open a new one before every game.
 

72o

Full House
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
4,918
Reaction score
8,328
Location
MA
^^^ Yup...done. If it's at your house, then your rules/equipment. But honestly, if this is a concern in your home game, get some new (poker) friends!
 

slisk250

Straight Flush
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
7,878
Reaction score
13,106
Location
Rocky Mountain High
If you really think a deck is marked you can fan the cards on both ends and see some marking patterns. That doesn't work for something that requires a lens though.
 

H|Q

Flush
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
1,490
Reaction score
2,497
Location
Upriver From DCS
With the marked cards, you need some special lens to look through. Some decks only require a red filter (lens) to pick up on the mark. So be wary of people wearing red tinted glasses that seem to be pulling off sick reads.

In a traditional marked deck, you'd want to flip through them and watch the backs for changing patterns. It will be obvious.
 

DrStrange

Full House
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,953
Reaction score
9,244
Location
Outlet Mall in San Marcos
If I am hosting, it is my chips, my cards, my rules etc. I rotate decks between about a dozen set ups and I inspect my decks occasionally for stray marks.

You can buy marked versions of most commercial decks on the internet, so it would be possible to slip a marked deck into my game and then wait till it came up in play. But you might have to wait a month or more. I do not know how convincing a fake deck would feel / look though I expect the highest quality ones would be essentially undetectable. Spend an hour reading the internet searching for marked cards. It will be eye opening and a little disturbing.

This is one of the reasons we use burn cards. Proper procedure can mitigate the risk.

DrStrange

PS I do not have this problem since my players often can't see the value of the cards when they are face up on the table. No joke, really this is an issue for us even using large index cards.
 

trever

Straight
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
833
Reaction score
943
Location
Cincinnati
From my perspective, the bigger risk is players fouling a clean deck. (Warping cards, bending corners, nicking edges, adding/removing cards). Its a lot easier to mess with the deck you have than to introduce a marked deck.
 

Mental Nomad

Full House
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
3,640
Reaction score
2,457
Location
NJ - NY/NJ metro area
The two common solutions:

1. Buy inexpensive paper cards in bulk. Unseal them in the presence of other players at the beginning of the game. Never re-use. Afterwards, use them for non-money games (bridge, etc.), donate to schools & retirement homes, etc.

2. Buy quality plastic cards from known major vendors. KEM, Modiano, Paitnik - choose something common in retail, and choose simple, well-known card back designs. These cards can be (inspected and) re-used.

Either way, be sure to always burn a card before dealing... and to never burn the card until immediately before dealing.
If still afraid, get a card protector large enough to cover most of your hole cards, and use it religiously.
You can also get red-tinted (& other) glasses of your own to use when inspecting cards.

Pre-marked decks are actually rather rare... most have visible markings, and glasses just make it easier to read them. As trever mentions, the more common approach is to damage or makr cards wile in play, and then to take advantage of that knowledge until someone else notices and the cards are replaced. Paper cards are cheaper to replace, plastic cards are harder to damage/mark.
 

BGinGA

Royal Flush
Tourney Director
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
25,749
Reaction score
39,962
Location
Atlanta
get a card protector large enough to cover most of your hole cards, and use it religiously.

That is against the rules in many casinos and card rooms, which have limits on how big card protectors can be (so that the cards cannot be hidden, and so that large card protectors do not block others' view of cards or chips).
 

Mental Nomad

Full House
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
3,640
Reaction score
2,457
Location
NJ - NY/NJ metro area
That is against the rules in many casinos and card rooms, which have limits on how big card protectors can be

True - but professional card rooms and casinos ensure their cards are unmarked and have ample replacements. So they KNOW their game is protected, on that front. Their concern is a break in the flow of play caused by cards not being seen, or about giving someone the opportunity to steal a pair of cards off the table, unnoticed... and they're concerned about someone using a card guard to mark cards!

In the OP's situation, which sounds like a home game where he already has some reason to fear that the cards are marked, they probably won't have such rules on card protector sizes, and this can protect him. It's up to others to insist on smaller card guards to protect themselves against OP stealing cards and cheating with them.

If the OP doesn't have a real reason to fear marked cards, he'd probably be better off focusing on improving his game, and protecting against the more common frauds - such as pot-slamming and angle-shooting.
 

Mental Nomad

Full House
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
3,640
Reaction score
2,457
Location
NJ - NY/NJ metro area
Let's say BG and I decide to cheat you at poker. (I'm picking the people I figure to be least likely to ever try to cheat at poker.)

We're all playing together at the table, and every time BG has a solid hand and makes a small or moderate raise that gets called by someone, I go ahead and raise back, even though I've got crap. Whoever is caught in the middle just keeps getting bumped for more. We can keep this up, back and forth, for several raises on each street... until I fold on the river, not showing.

Then, when I have a hand, he does the same for me.

We each lose a bunch of money to each other - which we settle up later - but we definitely slam those pots full of money from unsuspecting strangers caught between us.

In my experience, this is the single most common form of cheating at poker. Officially, it's called "collusion" - which may include other moves, but is primarily pot-slamming.

You have to be careful about calling pot-slamming on someone, because legitimate play can also look like pot-slamming.
 

Quicksilver-75

4 of a Kind
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
5,512
Reaction score
8,717
Location
Great White North
I always like to invite a few Red Shirt guys from Star Trek. Early in the game quickly accuse one of cheating and have him die immediately like on an away mission. When the others see how cheaters are dealt with you have no worries. : )

redshirts.jpg
 
Last edited:

courage

Full House
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
4,260
Reaction score
6,571
I heard that there are some cards which have painted their value on its backside. the cheater can see the value with a spec. sunglasses or contact linces.

Is there a way to protect that? I cant tell my poker friends that we just use my cards.

As others noted, if it's your game, your rules, your cards. There are many ways cheaters get an advantage, from primitive marking, card manipulation, or tech.

 

slisk250

Straight Flush
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
7,878
Reaction score
13,106
Location
Rocky Mountain High
Two times at games I've had this year after the first couple of hands, I noticed that there were damaged cards. In both cases an ace was "marked". Once was a bend and the other was a fingernail mark. They were both new decks of paper Bicycle cards. I showed the players the cards and why I removed them from play. I asked that people be careful with the cards. I'm not sure who attempted to mark them but it hasn't happened since. That is another reason I have a dedicated dealer. It is someone I trust or me.
 

Poker Zombie

Royal Flush
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
13,809
Reaction score
25,942
Location
Nashville-ish
That is against the rules in many casinos and card rooms, which have limits on how big card protectors can be (so that the cards cannot be hidden, and so that large card protectors do not block others' view of cards or chips).

At the WSOP Mrs. Zombie and I used our Zombie Card guards. By WSOP rules, they were too big, but barely. For those not in the know they are dealer button sized, and will cover the majority of a bridge sized (used in most casinos) card.

I received permission by the tournament director (via Twitter) to use them. We also had them in play at Wynn, Caesars, Mirage, and various lesser card rooms, and never ran into an issue. I think what they are trying to prevent in most cases is a big f*cking rock, or some tricky device that could possibly swap in/out cards.

As for my game, every card is inspected at the end of the night. Cards are always wiped down to prevent hand-gunk build-up and stray marks, and damaged cards are removed from play and replaced with cards from an identical deck. I also swap out 1/4 of the undamaged cards so the new cards don't show signs of less wear.

And yes, I do inspect the decks with a red-tint lens on occasion - just because I have it.

I do all of this, despite the fact that I trust every one of my players.

"Trust everyone, but always cut the deck." -Winston Churchill
 

Mental Nomad

Full House
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
3,640
Reaction score
2,457
Location
NJ - NY/NJ metro area
A lot of places don't allow cell phones on the tables, or cigarette packs. It has nothing to do with the phones or smoking... they are similar in size and shape to playing cards, and make it easier to hold a good card and sneak it back into play later.
 

AfterTheFact

Full House
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
4,043
Reaction score
11,061
Location
TRK'ville
Last year at the MGM in Vegas I noticed the Ace of Spades had a fingernail mark. I brought it to the dealers attention and it was removed from play and replaced. They also seemed to have a big problem getting people to follow the English only rule at the table.
 
Top Bottom