Low Stakes PLO Hand Discussion (1 Viewer)

detroitdad

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SAT. night we were playing .25/.50 HOPE. We were currently on a PLO round. $100 max buy in

We are at a full table of regular home players. Most are solid players. We range anywhere from light gamblers to damn near pro's (looking at @ChaosRock ) :) Most of the table has been playing for several years, to even longer with each other.

My mood is a little different than most nights. I'm reserved, kind of quiet. Some serious family shit is on my mind. @mike32 talked me into coming out for a great dinner and break from the house. He was right. It was a great idea, but my head wasn't in the game as much as usual. Add to the fact that I was horribly card dead. I would say we were close to the three hour mark and I was leaving in about an hour. I played the first three hands of the night. Then not much after that.

I'm in the SB for .25. It limps to me. Were probably 7-8 players in the hand at this point. I look down at A/A/3/6, only one ace is suited and its black.

I complete the BB. Knowing that if I raise I will still be playing with a shit ton of players going into the flop and really crappy position.

Do you do anything different? FWIW, if I raise there will probably still be 5 ish players in the hand.

@Sprouty @Marc Hedrick @mike32 and @ChaosRock are all in the hand. Mike32 is in the BB.

This obviously isn't the fun part of the hand. I'll get to that after lunch.

B

Paulo, as I continue with the hand. Please correct me if I screw something up in the recollection of how it played it.
 
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I’m always putting in a small raise here, probably to $2.

I know that most of the time I’m going to miss and have to fold, but the times I hit hard, nut flush draw, top set, wrap, etc I want some money on the pot already.

I don’t mind losing $2 now when the potential to get paid off multi way is so big.
 
I'm raising. The only reason not to raise is if you never raise from the SB, and even then, this is a good time to start. Bump it up and play for a $15 pot instead of $2.50.

I probably flat because I’m out of position and don’t really know much about PLO. From what I saw this weekend the advice above is probably way more accurate.
 
three for three.......all saying I did it wrong lol...........Sounds about right. Just wait until you see what I did later in the hand lol.



I'm raising. The only reason not to raise is if you never raise from the SB, and even then, this is a good time to start. Bump it up and play for a $15 pot instead of $2.50.

I think it was literally a family pot. There might have been 5 bucks in there? No sure. If there was any folders it was only one or two.
 
three for three.......all saying I did it wrong lol...........Sounds about right. Just wait until you see what I did later in the hand lol.





I think it was literally a family pot. There might have been 5 bucks in there? No sure. If there was any folders it was only one or two.

Not 3 for 3! I posted I would probably have flatted also. If the table was different, I probably raise there more often tough.
 
Not 3 for 3! I posted I would probably have flatted also. If the table was different, I probably raise there more often tough.

I think this is the only spot you agree with me lol.
I’m always putting in a small raise here, probably to $2.

I know that most of the time I’m going to miss and have to fold, but the times I hit hard, nut flush draw, top set, wrap, etc I want some money on the pot already.

I don’t mind losing $2 now when the potential to get paid off multi way is so big.

This makes sense. Honestly, that is how I usually play something like this. I didn't for a few reasons. One, it was already a family pot. My head wasn't completely in the game. I was trying to keep my decisions simple (for now). I knew if I raised it I was still going to be playing with most of the table. Most of these guys don't like to fold. Especially pre flop.

Otherwise, I completely agree with you.
 
I have a busy next couple of hours. Lets get onto the flop.

There are 8 or so players in the hand. Lets say 4 bucks in the pot.

I'm holding A/A/3/6, three suited.

Flop

:ah::8h::7d:


I'm first to act.
 
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I would have full potted pre flop and evaluated board texture on the flop. If it was a connected, wet flop you could check call and evaluate the turn action. If it was a dry flop, I would bet 50-75 %, maybe take it down, could fold to a raise. With this board, I'm always full potting it
 
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I’m always putting in a small raise here, probably to $2.

I know that most of the time I’m going to miss and have to fold, but the times I hit hard, nut flush draw, top set, wrap, etc I want some money on the pot already.

I don’t mind losing $2 now when the potential to get paid off multi way is so big.

I play in games like this all the time and like a small raise here too. If you have a short stack raise big enough to get it all in on the flop.

As you played it, I probably try to check raise the flop.
 
Well you under repped you hand preflop, nobody is likely to put you on top set, so middle or bottom set may pay you off. This board hit every draw, high wraps, low wraps, flush draws, lots of 2 pair plus draws.

We definetly want to get money in the pot here. I’m betting the $4 in the pot, but don’t say pot when you do it!

Hopefully you get raised by someone and get to 3 bet with some dead money and play for stacks as a coin flip vs wrap plus flush draw with plenty of dead money in the pot.
 
Too fast . . . .

Preflop:
1. Stack sizes matter in this discussion. No need for exact values, but I see a lot of difference between a $20 buy in game and a $200 buy in game.
2. If Hero never raises from the small blind in a long running game, then raising here is unwise. FWIW, hero should have some raise range in horrible position.
3. If the stacks are deep, Hero should raise preflop. If hero never raises, then don't raise.

Flop is a pot sized bet. Ideally this becomes a big betting war on the flop. More likely hero gets callers and turns an unsafe card (of which there are many - 27 by my count) I don't know how tight Hero's table image is - - let's hope it is wider than "nut-peddler". If Hero's raise is only ever top set then he needs to change his ways or quit playing bit bet Omaha.

It is hard to make future plans, not knowing stack sizing and table images/villain reads. I'd be inclined to bet some of the straightening turns but not the flushes. Obviously bet the bricks and paired boards.

Position is more important in big bet Omaha games than in no limit holdem. This hand might play out better for Hero had he been on the button.

Also, if Hero isn't betting his draws hard in PLO, then he gives up a lot of equity and information. My personal rule of thumb is any draw with 10+ "good" outs is worthy of a bet from any position. The better the position the weaker the draw can be in terms of number of outs. Crappy low flush draws and draws to the dummy end are worse than trash even with a lot of "outs" - the RIO risk is enormous
 
Okay I am getting caught up here. I would flat pf, as A-A hands go in plo high, this one isn't great. You do have one suited and little straight combo but that's it. You will be oop and have to check-fold a lot.

If you are going to raise I would go for max here. The only way you can really expect to realize value from AA oop is in a shorthanded (and really heads-up) pot. But if you feel you are unlikely to thin the field, just call.

On the flop is really simple, bet pot, hope to dodge flushes or improve to a full or quads. There may be a case for checking planning to raise depending on who raises, but you're looking to start building here.
 
1. Stack sizes matter in this discussion. No need for exact values, but I see a lot of difference between a $20 buy in game and a $200 buy in game.

Absolutely. In my head I put that in the OP. It was a 100 max buy in game. There weren't any short stacks at the table.

Also, if Hero isn't betting his draws hard in PLO

I absolutely bet my draws. My position in the hand usually plays a big part in this. I also will bet out of position.
 
1. Stack sizes matter in this discussion. No need for exact values, but I see a lot of difference between a $20 buy in game and a $200 buy in game.

Hero (SB) had around $120
V1 (HJ) had around $200
V2 (CO) had around $400

Other stacks were around $100, no short stacks.
 
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You weren't short stacked then. I understand the "never raise" camp in small stakes PLO. You rarely get folds and leads to big swings! The flip side is small pots when when you smash the flop like you did here. I have begun to favor the small raise more as of late. Try to balance what you limp with and what you raise with.
 
Pre-flop: Without Paulo in the hand, I'd pot it, but since he limped, I just flat. I try not to raise pots out of position when facing a pro.

Flop: Pot MFer, complete with verbal fanfare. Could play for a check-raise, if previous action indicates an almost guaranteed bet with this group.
 

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