Live streaming of meetup (1 Viewer)

[Poker Zombie]

All these morality clauses. Jeebus.

My boss once tried to stake me into a tournament with the department holiday party money to try and have a bigger party.

That's because everyone in the north are sinners. You will be smote.

And I work at a not for profit in K-12 education.

Not for profit? Jesus want's you to make a profit, so you can carry a gun.


Now if you'll excuse me, I need to wash my fingers after typing that BS that tries to oppress me.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I'm seriously looking into this....
Has anyone used OBS? It has built-in Delay timers, probably not as important for live play vs online (used mainly for Twitch streaming)

Also, someone mentioned Youtube Live as well as FB live..for those of us not active on Facebook, the YT option may be better....?
But I haven't looked into it...
nitzilla

FB allows you the option to select who can watch the stream. You could effectively disallow anyone at the meet-up from connecting to the stream to minimize the possibility of cheating (if you chose to show hole cards). As for OBS, do you need your own domain to post the streaming videos?

 

[Trihonda]

I looked into YouTube live streaming. This is for people with channels that have 10,000 or more subscribers, so I do not qualify


And as for streaming a game with the hole cameras, this is not something I would be interested in taking on. I would be looking for more of the overhead shot of the main table, like I showed you above, so that folks on the webs could follow some of the action and banter. I have no interest in running a (Poker) broadcast with Hands, etc. I think people that do this, take on an immense amount of work behind the scenes to run something like that. I don't think it is something that could just be left on and forgotten. I think the systems require supervision, and I don't think I would ask my meet up guests to constantly be showing their hole cards to cameras. Seems kind of like a fun killer. But obv it'd be more enjoyable for the viewer, but meetups are imho focused for those who attend.

 

[ruskba]

I think people that do this, take on an immense amount of work behind the scenes to run something like that. I don't think it is something that could just be left on and forgotten. I think the systems require supervision...

I think this is a big thing that is getting overlooked. Even a simple overhead cam will probably require some supervision and as a host, it seems like you've already got your hands full coordinating everything else. Throw in a live stream and now you've got however many people on the internet now bugging you to fix the audio or zoom in a bit or asking who's in seat 7.

That being said, it would still be cool to make happen. One random thought for the bandwidth issue is that you can set up a guest network for the attendees to keep them separate from the stream. Could have them at different frequencies to keep the stream on a less crowded frequency. Might be possible to do some sort of bandwidth limiting on the guest network, depending on your router.

 

[Trihonda]

I think this is a big thing that is getting overlooked. Even a simple overhead cam will probably require some supervision and as a host, it seems like you've already got your hands full coordinating everything else. Throw in a live stream and now you've got however many people on the internet now bugging you to fix the audio or zoom in a bit or asking who's in seat 7.

That being said, it would still be cool to make happen. One random thought for the bandwidth issue is that you can set up a guest network for the attendees to keep them separate from the stream. Could have them at different frequencies to keep the stream on a less crowded frequency. Might be possible to do some sort of bandwidth limiting on the guest network, depending on your router.

I've got a decent router (new), and it's got a couple different bands. I have one for guests, and one for all my home internet usage, etc... Since it's possible my family will be gone for the event, bandwidth might not be a huge issue.

 

[Pokerdweebz]

I've got a decent router (new), and it's got a couple different bands. I have one for guests, and one for all my home internet usage, etc... Since it's possible my family will be gone for the event, bandwidth might not be a huge issue.

Probably wouldn't be much of an issue since guests will almost solely be using download bandwidth (besides to upload pictures) so barring you overrunning your upload they shouldn't affect each other.

 

[dew4au]

Has anyone used OBS?

I have OBS experience.

I've never been to a meat up mainly due to the fact I'm not a particularly strong poker player. I don't want to get carved up six ways to Sunday. However, I am very technical and I have often pondered the logistics of having some sort of online presence for a meat up. I've come to the same conclusion that it's not a Set it and Forget it™ type operation. You would need a host to act as an intermediary and producer of the event. Answering questions, adjusting levels, moving cameras and such would be too much overhead for the host. If such an operation would go live, I would definitely see if I could help out.

 

[detroitdad]

I've never been to a meat up mainly due to the fact I'm not a particularly strong poker player

Shouldn't let that stop you. I'm in the same boat. These meet ups are a blast.

I don't want to get carved up six ways to Sunday

How I avoid this is by folding a lot, drinking, and bullshitting. I think I've been to six meet ups. four of them I either won/loss in the 100 range. The Melee even was my biggest win at around 600 and my biggest loss was at @courage 's meet up where I lost about 400 ish. I couldn't make a right decision to save my life

I treat these as much of a social event as I do a poker event.

 

[dew4au]

I treat these as much of a social event as I do a poker event.

I've only gotten the impression from reading threads that it's all about crazy action in circus games, so I wasn't exactly thrilled about dumping a G into something I'm not comfortable with. Thanks for the heads up. I think if there was some sort of a stream, it would give people who are curious a little more insight about how the games play.

 

[detroitdad]

I've only gotten the impression from reading threads that it's all about crazy action in circus games, so I wasn't exactly thrilled about dumping a G into something I'm not comfortable with. Thanks for the heads up. I think if there was some sort of a stream, it would give people who are curious a little more insight about how the games play.

There are usually tables with different stakes and games being played. I usually hang out at the "light " circus games. Mostly flop type HL and Omaha variants.

 

[Trihonda]

I've only gotten the impression from reading threads that it's all about crazy action in circus games, so I wasn't exactly thrilled about dumping a G into something I'm not comfortable with. Thanks for the heads up. I think if there was some sort of a stream, it would give people who are curious a little more insight about how the games play.

This is an interesting post. I've often said that we want meet ups to be friendly, and more like a poker themed party, than a degenerate filled game where you could lose your mortgage payment. Certainly, some meet ups Have a different feel to them. Each is unique, and attracts a variety of different people.

When I first joined the online chipping world, I saw a thread about Jeff's Windy City blowout. I was intrigued, but also a bit nervous. I certainly felt from reading the threads that I was probably going to be outclassed by several people in attendance. However talking to Jeff, he assured me that there were plenty of friendly, low stakes games, where if you just play tight, you can sit at a table for a decent period of time socializing, without losing a ton of money.

It's been a few years now, but that first meet up Experience, was life-changing. I met an amazing group of people with similar poker and poker chip interests. Everybody was amazingly friendly, and I had such an amazing time. Attending my first meet up really propelled me Into collecting chips, and eventually hosting my own meet up. The MTTD Will be in its fourth year now.

I do see a trend towards circus and other mixed poker games. However, there is always friendly low stakes no limit hold em action going on as well. There are definitely good players that attend these meet ups, but the atmosphere is very friendly. Everybody is trying to take everyone else's money, but nobody wants anyone to go broke. Not sure if that makes any sense.

I strongly encourage anyone to get to a meet up. It's an experience that can change your life. And by the way, my newbie (Poker) ass came away from my first Windy City blowout with more money than I came with. I just followed Jeff's advice, played tight, and had a Tonna fun

 

[Poker Zombie]

I've only gotten the impression from reading threads that it's all about crazy action in circus games, so I wasn't exactly thrilled about dumping a G into something I'm not comfortable with. Thanks for the heads up. I think if there was some sort of a stream, it would give people who are curious a little more insight about how the games play.

It certainly can feel that way, but like Trihonda said, each meet-up is different.

Just on reputation, BBOTB is going to play a little crazier. DCS was also a bit crazy, even at the "little" circus table - for my liking. It meant tightening up more than I would like, but I'm not one to flip for mortgages as I only bring $200 a day to the events. You can't lose what you don't bring.

On the other hand, I just got out of the Suicide Queen Melee without playing a single hand of a circus cash game. I had a lot of fun, learned Drawmaha in a $20 SNG tournament setting, and improved my Open Face Chinese game. Other than the NLHE tournament, I never risked more than $20 in a single buy-in.

S@P runs a "one ring circus" game, where "Pot-pot-pot" simply isn't spoken very often (if Ronoh sits down, that instantly changes though).

SSSS ran 2 tables, and the "kids" table was also very tame compared to the Jam/get quartered/get eighthed table.

That said, if you went to an event to socialize and to support a live stream, I'm sure most hosts would be glad to have you come along. One simply cannot run a cash game bank, a tournament, manage food, remove trash, resupply bathrooms, play poker, and handle a live stream alone. It requires assistants. One dedicated to helping with occasional playing would be a boon for any host.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Don't forget beer angels

 

[Tommy]

I think live streaming this type of event is a bad idea.

 

[Psypher1000]

I think live streaming this type of event is a bad idea.

Curious as to why.

 

[Trihonda]

I think live streaming this type of event is a bad idea.

I agree, it has potential to be bad. However, if it's done in a way that only allows access to those with the link (ie. in the meetup thread), and it doesn't show hole cards, I think there's little security risk (and I'm hyper vigilant about security).

I also concur that without hole cards, or details on the action, it could be a very boring feed... But might have it's moments.

Are you seeing some risks that I'm not?

I'm not saying we'll do a live stream, but I'm exploring it (given it can be done easily, safely, and has merit).

Regardless, I'm planning a repeat of last year's video blogging at both the MTTD and WCB (with Jeff's permission). I don't think we had any negative issues arise from these videos.

 

[manamongkids]

I agree, it has potential to be bad. However, if it's done in a way that only allows access to those with the link (ie. in the meetup thread), and it doesn't show hole cards, I think there's little security risk (and I'm hyper vigilant about security).

I also concur that without hole cards, or details on the action, it could be a very boring feed... But might have it's moments.

Are you seeing some risks that I'm not?

I'm not saying we'll do a live stream, but I'm exploring it (given it can be done easily, safely, and has merit).

Regardless, I'm planning a repeat of last year's video blogging at both the MTTD and WCB (with Jeff's permission). I don't think we had any negative issues arise from these videos.

overthinking this majorly IMO

Setup a fake Facebook page, only invite only your PCF friends to it, livestream via FB live. Wham bam thank you mam

 

[Tommy]

Curious as to why.

I guess it depends where you live and how much gray area there is on that type of activity.

 

[Trihonda]

I guess it depends where you live and how much gray area there is on that type of activity.

Agreed that needs to be considered, but we're not talking about "open" live streams, such as twitch. We're talking about a secure-ish feed. If you think this might create evidence of gamboling or having the cops show up, it's not likely IMHO. And not much different than the event live blogs on this forum, where people are discussing (putting down in writing) all kinda of betting and gamboling degeneratism (with pictures).

Cops are guaranteed to show up at the MTTD, as several of my super nice local players are local cops (game security is covered).

 

[manamongkids]

Agreed that needs to be considered, but we're not talking about "open" live streams, such as twitch. We're talking about a secure-ish feed. If you think this might create evidence of gamboling or having the cops show up, it's not likely IMHO. And not much different than the event live blogs on this forum, where people are discussing (putting down in writing) all kinda of betting and gamboling degeneratism (with pictures).

Cops are guaranteed to show up at the MTTD, as several of my super nice local players are local cops (game security is covered).

becomes a concern if u are running a game with randoms who are being charged a rake, essentially a for-profit operation.

 

[Trihonda]

becomes a concern if u are running a game with randoms who are being charged a rake, essentially a for-profit operation.

Absolutely, I get this, but I was referring to Tommy's concerns that a live stream might not be a good idea. Tommy alluded to this being frowned upon by the authorities, and I agree, I wouldn't want my boss (or the authorities) watching videos of me playing poker in my house, but I just feel like that's pretty low on the "likely" chart.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, only inquisitive. I'm not married to the live stream idea. I think it has it's merits, but also it's drawbacks. I'm trying to get a handle on all the opinions of risk-effort:rewards.

edited: Come to think about it... I've had several of my managers over to play poker at various times. I guess this makes it hard for them to discipline for me, right? But obv I try to keep things on the DL

 

[dew4au]

I wouldn't stream if there were any grey area. If it's in FL and there's no rake, then I see no problem with a private stream.

I still wouldn't do it with FB live though. It's still broadcasting under your name. You could do it on Twitch, but set yourself to "Not Playing." That way, you can stream under an alias and you don't show up in the directory. Only people with the URL could access the stream. It's not super security, but it stays off FB where I believe there is a higher lever of visibility and potential for accidental stream leaks into personal accounts.

 

[manamongkids]

I wouldn't stream if there were any grey area. If it's in FL and there's no rake, then I see no problem with a private stream.

I still wouldn't do it with FB live though. It's still broadcasting under your name. You could do it on Twitch, but set yourself to "Not Playing." That way, you can stream under an alias and you don't show up in the directory. Only people with the URL could access the stream. It's not super security, but it stays off FB where I believe there is a higher lever of visibility and potential for accidental stream leaks into personal accounts.

my idea was to create a sham FB account, where you only add people on it who want to see the FB live stream, no1 else

 

[Hobbyphilic]

Well, the technical side can be ironed out pretty quickly unless someone decides to try and live stream hole cards .

Individual privacy is probably the biggest concern. The general public is VERY eager to stir the pot, hope that wasn't a pun, by calling authorities over false information just to get a laugh.

If everyone agrees to a stream I'd be happy to help. I have a cardioid pattern small diaphragm mic that should capture audio at one table pretty well.

 

[Nex]

Cheapest way to do this (still really expensive!) is hole cameras. If you do all the work yourself with getting cams and building them into your table probably a bit less, but even with cheap cameras remember you need a lot of them for just one table, and of course also a computer with enough power, connections and the right software running to get something meaningful out of the video streams from the cams.

For RFID, just a deck of cards costs way more than 100 bucks. Let alone the systems inside the poker table and the software to make it work. Probably not worth it for "just for fun" usage. http://www.pokertronic.de/rfid-pokercards/


For the concern of privacy/security, I'd suggest to simply delay the stream by the time an average hand takes, or a bit longer.

 

[Trihonda]

Cheapest way to do this (still really expensive!) is hole cameras. If you do all the work yourself with getting cams and building them into your table probably a bit less, but even with cheap cameras remember you need a lot of them for just one table, and of course also a computer with enough power, connections and the right software running to get something meaningful out of the video streams from the cams.

For RFID, just a deck of cards costs way more than 100 bucks. Let alone the systems inside the poker table and the software to make it work. Probably not worth it for "just for fun" usage. http://www.pokertronic.de/rfid-pokercards/


For the concern of privacy/security, I'd suggest to simply delay the stream by the time an average hand takes, or a bit longer.

Appreciate the feedback, but I will NOT host a live streamed game (during a meetup) with hole cams, even on a delay. It's a meetup, and needs to be fairly "set it and forget it" (thanks Ron Popiel). Some sort of webcam with an overhead shot of the main table, capturing the fun, banter, and possibly the run out of some interesting table action. That's it. It has to be private (only viewable with the link). I wouldn't ask attendees to show their cards to the hole cam. I'd be repeating that all weekend long.... If you're on a TV show, fine, put the players through that kinda grief... But for a meetup, people are supposed to be enjoying themselves, having fun, and playing cards. It's a poker themed party, not a TV show. I can see most attendees wouldn't care if this were being streamed, AND they understood it was just fellow PCFers loggin in to see the action from time to time. I'd never feel comfortable playing a home game where it was being live streamed and there was any chance my boss, some crooks, or the District Attorney were watching the action.


I will say that having a live stream of the Final ME table would be cool with Hole Cards, etc... Maybe even commentary. However, the Final table will last maybe 1-2 hours, and I'm not going to through that kinda hassle and extreme expense for an hour of play that people can watch...

Wanna watch/experience the final table? Feel free to attend

Well, the technical side can be ironed out pretty quickly unless someone decides to try and live stream hole cards .

Individual privacy is probably the biggest concern. The general public is VERY eager to stir the pot, hope that wasn't a pun, by calling authorities over false information just to get a laugh.

If everyone agrees to a stream I'd be happy to help. I have a cardioid pattern small diaphragm mic that should capture audio at one table pretty well.

Great information. I have no idea what a cardioid pattern is, but if you have streaming experience, I'm interesting in hearing if this can be accomplished relatively easily while maintaining privacy and security.

 

[Nex]

You probably won't get a good "set and forget" experience with any current technology though that is affordable and/or unobstrusive to the players.

As people previously said, just having a static overhead camera will make the stream very, very dull. Even if you add live infographics with hole cards and stuff...
Which is why they have multiple cameras around the table, close up on the individual players, on TV and a dedicated camera team making intelligent cuts between those whenever something is going on, i.e. not just when it's their turn (that could indeed even be done in software) but also if a conversation is going or things like that.

So I'm not quite sure what your goal is with the stream. For an enjoyable/engaging stream you'd have to pull off a lot of stuff in addition to shelling out tons of money for the equipment.

Re: Hole card cameras – there's also the camera montage style where you have glass parts in the table surface you only have to place the cards on. No lifting them in front of a camera built into the railing. Might be an alternative if you don't want to ask your players to do anything special, because the cards are going to be placed somewhere on the table anyway.

 

[Trihonda]

You probably won't get a good "set and forget" experience with any current technology though that is affordable and/or unobstrusive to the players.

As people previously said, just having a static overhead camera will make the stream very, very dull. Even if you add live infographics with hole cards and stuff...
Which is why they have multiple cameras around the table, close up on the individual players, on TV and a dedicated camera team making intelligent cuts between those whenever something is going on, i.e. not just when it's their turn (that could indeed even be done in software) but also if a conversation is going or things like that.

So I'm not quite sure what your goal is with the stream. For an enjoyable/engaging stream you'd have to pull off a lot of stuff in addition to shelling out tons of money for the equipment.

Re: Hole card cameras – there's also the camera montage style where you have glass parts in the table surface you only have to place the cards on. No lifting them in front of a camera built into the railing. Might be an alternative if you don't want to ask your players to do anything special, because the cards are going to be placed somewhere on the table anyway.

Meetups often have regular attendees (the usual suspects). So the appeal would be getting a chance to catch some of the banter of folks we might know from other meetups, but might not be able to attend in person ourselves. I don't think the appeal is in having a stream that people would sit and watch for hours on end. It would not be meant as a TV show. We get that sitting and watching a televised poker game (without hole cameras) is kinda lame. However, I've seen several MSPT feature tables on TWITCH, where I know the players, and I find that mildly interesting (despite the lack of hole cards or commentary). Getting to watch the final table action at the Melee would have been cool. And if players know people are watching, they can give commentary to the camera on big hands...

This was one of my VLOGs from the WCB, and though the camera moves around, you can get the idea of some table banter (and even commentary from the peanut gallery). I think the same thing could be accomplished via an overhead camera like the one shown below!