live micro cash game hand

boeller

Pair
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
142
Reaction score
256
Location
Munich, Germany
I think this hand is a pretty standard hand, but i had to think a few times about it the last 2 days and thought i give it a try and post it here. Just want to see if my thought process is wrong or if this spot is just obvious.

My game used to be a 10€ buyin Cash game with 0.05/0.10 blinds. On friday we opened the buyin the first time to 20€ and i gave the players that made profit in our online games their money in chips on the table. We got starting stacks from 10€ (only one person) to 40€ by this. The game itself is a loose preflop game with standard opening around 50-60c and even this get a lot family or 4 player pots. Post flop most agression get a lot of folds.

Our V in this game is a very good friend i know 20years+ and played a variety of card games in this time with. If he bets strong most of the time he has it, he protects his good pp but his bluffs are never complete air.(atleast those he had to show) This evening doesn't went good for him so far. He lost his first 30€ slow but steady. Just rebought for 10€ two hands ago, won a small pot and is at about 12€.

H went in his stack up and down a lot. I bought in for 20€ went down to 10€ a few times, made it back to around 20€ in this spot. I deal the game full time and play very loose pre flop and bluff a bit too much. I get a few shaking heads now and then with "wtf he got now again". Never lost money (besides for snacks and drinks) in this game, but never won big by this playstyle. This game is just our friends getting together every 3-4 weeks.

To the hand: We are 6 handed V is UTG, H on the button - effective stack 12€

V made it 0.60c
one fold and Co calls
H looks down on :ac::kh:

Action?
 

Eriks

Full House
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
3,026
Reaction score
5,389
Location
Sweden
With the description of hero as loose and bluffy I'd say this is a 3-bet just about 100% of the time. I'd make it €1.8-2, no need to go too big here, being in position we certainly don't mind getting action.
 

Eriks

Full House
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
3,026
Reaction score
5,389
Location
Sweden
On a sidenote, if €0.6 is a standard open I would consider going with 0.1/0.2 blinds instead.
 

boeller

Pair
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
142
Reaction score
256
Location
Munich, Germany
On a sidenote, if €0.6 is a standard open I would consider going with 0.1/0.2 blinds instead.

My goal is to get the my group to 0.25/0.25 with 25€ buyin and get rid of those 5c chips. But as most of them are very new or very casual to poker i need to do the steps careful to not scare them away.
The first step was to up the max buyin to 20€. Everybody loved that a bit more money was on the table. A few months ago that would have been a no go for this group.

As this one is pretty obvious and @Eriks said, its a 100% of the time 3-bet for hero, H made it 2€.

SB folds
BB folds
V calls
Co folds.

Pot 4,75€

Flop:
:ad::7d::4d:
V checks

Action?
 

mattross1313

Flush
Supporting Member
Joined
May 12, 2020
Messages
1,212
Reaction score
3,068
Location
Bournemouth, UK
I don't tend to comment on these threads as I don't think I know all that much (certainly compared with a lot of people here). So would welcome any thoughts on what I may do here too :whistle: :whistling:
Being in position here against the Villain it is definitely 3 bet time. If he is already in for 3 bullets he's likely playing a much wider range so you can put some pressure on. Flatting here could let him turn garbage into a strong hand on the flop, leaving you with A high if you miss.

EDIT - you already posted the flop as I was typing :bag:
 

Eriks

Full House
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
3,026
Reaction score
5,389
Location
Sweden
Bet the pot - make any diamond draw really think about whether or not they want to call.
I think I prefer a smaller bet of around €3. The reason is a potbet will not leave any room to manuver. The pot will be 19.5 and only 5.25 to call - not much room for him to do any kind of bluffing. Granted he could shove worse than AK for value/protection but I'd still choose a smaller size. Never folding on this flop
 

Legend5555

Flush
Joined
Jul 15, 2019
Messages
2,351
Reaction score
3,050
Location
Georgia
My goal is to get the my group to 0.25/0.25 with 25€ buyin and get rid of those 5c chips. But as most of them are very new or very casual to poker i need to do the steps careful to not scare them away.
The first step was to up the max buyin to 20€. Everybody loved that a bit more money was on the table. A few months ago that would have been a no go for this group.

As this one is pretty obvious and @Eriks said, its a 100% of the time 3-bet for hero, H made it 2€.

SB folds
BB folds
V calls
Co folds.

Pot 4,75€

Flop:
:ad::7d::4d:
V checks

Action?
You need to bet. But the question is how much. You typically don't have to bet very big in these spots unless you know you're opponent will never fold any A or any good single diamond to any bet.

I imagine villain can have a lot of pairs and suited broadways that just completely whiffed. Those will likely fold to anything. Some broadways with a single diamond will likely call (will opponent check raise the Kd?). And some pairs with a single diamond like 9s and Ts may call once.

I think anything from 33-70% pot could make sense depending on villain tendencies. We will obviously look to check back and diamond turn, and probably barrel any non-diamond turn. If we get raised in flop, we have a tough decision. If we get raised on turn (assuming we bet a brick), we should probably just fold. People at low stakes tend to check raise turn only with better than 1 pair.
 

DrStrange

Full House
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,841
Reaction score
8,591
Location
Outlet Mall in San Marcos
Preflop - yes, 3-bet from the button.

Flop - what a mixed blessing. top pair / top kicker with an SPR roughly four. But no diamond. If stacks were deeper, I might even check this behind. But as it is, I think Hero is in a must bet situation.

Sizing is the issue. Villain is likely to fold his air or weak pairs to almost any bet. My bias would be to bet small, two to three Euros is plenty. I lean towards a bet/fold line but perhaps a villain read might let us know if villain is semi bluffing.

DrStrange
 

tabletalker7

Flush
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
2,401
Reaction score
3,325
Location
Buffalo NY
Honestly this is where I use I feel for the table. No way a made flush shoves - they would just let you keep digging yourself in deeper. It is very possible we walked into a set. If you feel set then fold. I think he has one diamond, a high one, and that means you are a little shy of 2 to 1 ahead. I'd also have to question if it is worth calling almost 70% of what I started the hand with in this situation. I don't know what to tell you here.
 

JMC9389

4 of a Kind
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
5,565
Reaction score
8,892
Location
NJ
Well H comes to the same conclution and bets 3€ - V shoves instantly

Action?
Does villain have you covered? That's the only thing not clear in your posts so far.

AK off is a decent starting hand but I find that a lot of players overvalue it. Even taking into account that villain is a bit all over the place, this is a snap fold for me after they go over the top on your 3 euro bet. This is where stack size is important though. My answer changes if villain only has 5 or 6 Euro left, but if he has you covered over your 12 Euro stack, easy fold for me. Live another day.
 

Legend5555

Flush
Joined
Jul 15, 2019
Messages
2,351
Reaction score
3,050
Location
Georgia
So he shoved for 10 after your 3. So pot is 4.75 + 3 (hero) + 3 (villain call) + 7 (villain raise). So hero has to call 7 to win 17.75. 2.5 to 1. Not sure how we fold unless villain only does this with a flush or set.
 

boeller

Pair
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
142
Reaction score
256
Location
Munich, Germany
Does villain have you covered? That's the only thing not clear in your posts so far.

AK off is a decent starting hand but I find that a lot of players overvalue it. Even taking into account that villain is a bit all over the place, this is a snap fold for me after they go over the top on your 3 euro bet. This is where stack size is important though. My answer changes if villain only has 5 or 6 Euro left, but if he has you covered over your 12 Euro stack, easy fold for me. Live another day.


I bought in for 20€ went down to 10€ a few times, made it back to around 20€ in this spot. So i have almost 2 times his stack
 

kmccormick100

4 of a Kind
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
5,783
Reaction score
15,125
Location
Concord, CA
Well H comes to the same conclution and bets 3€ - V shoves instantly

Action?
No way I'm folding here for 6€ more into a pot of 9€ already. Villain should have a lot of high diamonds in his range that he's semi-bluff raising with. There are some value combos of 77, 44 and suited connector flushes you're losing to, but he could also be overplaying a worse Ace like AQ, or any combos containing the Kh.

Honestly this is where I use I feel for the table. No way a made flush shoves - they would just let you keep digging yourself in deeper. It is very possible we walked into a set. If you feel set then fold. I think he has one diamond, a high one, and that means you are a little shy of 2 to 1 ahead. I'd also have to question if it is worth calling almost 70% of what I started the hand with in this situation. I don't know what to tell you here.
If I have a small flush here, I'm shoving all day...
 

JMC9389

4 of a Kind
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
5,565
Reaction score
8,892
Location
NJ
So he shoved for 10 after your 3. So pot is 4.75 + 3 (hero) + 3 (villain call) + 7 (villain raise). So hero has to call 7 to win 17.75. 2.5 to 1. Not sure how we fold unless villain only does this with a flush or set.
Ah I see, thought hero was the one with the 12 euro stack. If Hero had 20 effective at the beginning of the hand, ugh, that's a tough spot.

If villain's rep is that he bets his big hands and semi bluffs a lot, but does not bluff with air, I'd still probably fold, but I'm a nit :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

This is where feel of the player and his reputation comes into play here.
 

JMC9389

4 of a Kind
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
5,565
Reaction score
8,892
Location
NJ
No way I'm folding here for 6€ more into a pot of 9€ already. Villain should have a lot of high diamonds in his range that he's semi-bluff raising with. There are some value combos of 77, 44 and suited connector flushes you're losing to, but he could also be overplaying a worse Ace like AQ, or any combos containing the Kh.


If I have a small flush here, I'm shoving all day...
I agree with the assessment that this particular villain would shove with a made set or flush here and not with a semi bluff. Aces are beat by just about every hand in villain's shove range here.

If the games plays loose and is fun among a group of long time friends, go ahead and call. But if I'm playing higher stakes here against players and I don't know their tendencies all too well, I think I'd fold while I'm somewhat ahead here where there's a reasonable shot that I'm beat and can lose over half my stack.
 

boeller

Pair
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
142
Reaction score
256
Location
Munich, Germany
I really thought a pocket 4 isnt that likely to put 2€ preflop in as he wasn't to end action (CO still had his cards) and i had a hard time to belive he'd jam a set of 4/7 in this spot.
Pocket A's would have been a clear 4-bet/jam for him preflop IMO.

If V had a done K high flush i think he would have made me put myself into trouble and just call.

Therefore my conclusion was he got Ax + :kd:or:qd:.

If the games plays loose and is fun among a group of long time friends, go ahead and call.

This made me do the call and i think thats why the hand didn't get out of my head that easy, since i thought about what i would have done if it wasn't him/my game.

V showed Ax :qd: and the board bricked two times for him.
 

Legend5555

Flush
Joined
Jul 15, 2019
Messages
2,351
Reaction score
3,050
Location
Georgia
I really thought a pocket 4 isnt that likely to put 2€ preflop in as he wasn't to end action (CO still had his cards) and i had a hard time to belive he'd jam a set of 4/7 in this spot.
Pocket A's would have been a clear 4-bet/jam for him preflop IMO.

If V had a done K high flush i think he would have made me put myself into trouble and just call.

Therefore my conclusion was he got Ax + :kd:or:qd:.



This made me do the call and i think thats why the hand didn't get out of my head that easy, since i thought about what i would have done if it wasn't him/my game.

V showed Ax :qd: and the board bricked two times for him.
If you think there is any chance villain has Ax as you say, then you can never fold AK here for the price you are getting.
 

Pinball

Flush
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
2,110
Reaction score
1,743
Location
Eggenwil / Switzerland
V isnt a player with a fancy play syndrom. So I would give him semi bluffs with flush draws, one pair with flush draw, made flushes. I guess two pairs and set he wouldn't have checked and giving free cards to draws. This spot is either small favorite or way behind. Imtend to fold
 
Top Bottom