Leaving your seat vs mucking early (1 Viewer)

[T_Chan]

Hosting tournaments comes with it's good and bad. One of the bads is that you often have to leave your seat to attend to something like knockouts, getting the door, refilling food, etc. In normal circumstances, you should not fold out of turn. But as a host, if I look at my hand, see that it's garbage and then leave the table it's a bit of a nuisance to then have everyone yelling at you from the other room "Hey are you folding?" "Tony it's your turn!", or even worse, waiting for me to come back to play the hand since I'm doing hosting duties.

So what's the best course of action?

Leaving your seat normally indicates you're folding. But that's different as host. Mucking your hand early gives away information to players before and after you. Then again telling your neighbor or the table "fold me when it's my turn" does the same.

 

[markleteenie]

Hosting tournaments comes with it's good and bad. One of the bads is that you often have to leave your seat to attend to something like knockouts, getting the door, refilling food, etc. In normal circumstances, you should not fold out of turn. But as a host, if I look at my hand, see that it's garbage and then leave the table it's a bit of a nuisance to then have everyone yelling at you from the other room "Hey are you folding?" "Tony it's your turn!", or even worse, waiting for me to come back to play the hand since I'm doing hosting duties.

So what's the best course of action?

Leaving your seat normally indicates you're folding. But that's different as host. Mucking your hand early gives away information to players before and after you. Then again telling your neighbor or the table "fold me when it's my turn" does the same.

I say, just tell them to muck you if you're not in the seat. And that goes for everyone else too.

 

[CraigT78]

I tell the guy next to me to fold me. Bonus for sitting next to the host.

 

[Eloe2000]

I tell the table when I initially sit down to muck me if I am not at the table when action gets to me.

 

[abby99]

I try to follow the following in both cash games and tournaments:

If you're within earshot, cap your cards, tell them to let you know when the action's on you, and announce Fold when it's on you. (If it's double board PLO, run back anf play your hand.)

If nobody has acted or folded, fold out of turn.

If even one person has acted or folded, unless it's a genuine emergency, stay seated and fold in turn. Folding out of turn isn't fair to players in front of you. Genuine emergencies include someone spilled a beverage on your ChanMan custom cloth or tipped over the keg, something is burning, the toilet is overflowing, etc.

Do you have a wireless keyboard?

 

[Moxie Mike]

So what's the best course of action?

Leaving your seat normally indicates you're folding. But that's different as host. Mucking your hand early gives away information to players before and after you. Then again telling your neighbor or the table "fold me when it's my turn" does the same.

The same rules apply to the host as they do to anyone else at the table. If your rule is that you need to be seated or your hand is mucked, then that's what needs to happen.

In our game, if a player is visible (walking toward the table after using the restroom, etc.), we give them the courtesy of waiting. But if I (as TD) get up for whatever reason with a live hand, my hand is mucked.

 

[DoubleEagle]

I try to follow the following in both cash games and tournaments:

If you're within earshot, cap your cards, tell them to let you know when the action's on you, and announce Fold when it's on you. (If it's double board PLO, run back anf play your hand.)

If nobody has acted or folded, fold out of turn.

If even one person has acted or folded, unless it's a genuine emergency, stay seated and fold in turn. Folding out of turn isn't fair to players in front of you. Genuine emergencies include someone spilled a beverage on your ChanMan custom cloth or tipped over the keg, something is burning, the toilet is overflowing, etc.

Do you have a wireless keyboard?

Yep. Exactly what I do.

 

[johnnycnote]

Muck and take care of what needs to be done. I'm auto mucked if I'm not back. Sometimes busted players will sit in for me and play. No one minds, we've been playing together more than 20 years and everyone is cool about things like that

 

[BGinGA]

I try to follow the following in both cash games and tournaments:

If you're within earshot, cap your cards, tell them to let you know when the action's on you, and announce Fold when it's on you. (If it's double board PLO, run back anf play your hand.)

If nobody has acted or folded, fold out of turn.

If even one person has acted or folded, unless it's a genuine emergency, stay seated and fold in turn. Folding out of turn isn't fair to players in front of you. Genuine emergencies include someone spilled a beverage on your ChanMan custom cloth or tipped over the keg, something is burning, the toilet is overflowing, etc.

^^ Good, sensible guidelines.

In our games, the host(s) and/or TD (not always the same people) always announce "official business" if they leave their seat while attending to some host/TD duty, and players will either wait until they return, or the TD will stop the clock (if tournament play, and the delay is anticipated to be lengthy -- in excess of 30 seconds or so).

If any player (host or not) is not on official business, an unattended hand is folded when facing action, regardless if capped or not (and an empty-seat tournament hand is initially mucked by the dealer upon completion of dealing all of the hands). If the player is nearby, they might get a shout-out, but it's not required.


To those who tell their neighbor to fold their hand, make sure it's the player to your left..... it's an unfair advantage to tell the player to your right.

 

[grantc54]

Would getting some sort of relay (and maybe a cell enabled web cam) so you can trigger the gate from your seat cut out 80% of the times you need to get up?

 

[BGinGA]

Nah, it's usually a ruling (TD) or food prep/check/spill (hosts). And none happen frequently enough to warrant the expense of a high-tech solution.

 

[Lemonzest]

I usually announce loudly as I walk away "fold me" so everyone knows and is privy to the same information. Not really a big deal in small stakes games anyway. The more important issue is not slowing down the game IMO.

 

[grantc54]

Nah, it's usually a ruling (TD) or food prep/check/spill (hosts). And none happen frequently enough to warrant the expense of a high-tech solution.

Lol, my comment was in specific reference to Tony's game where I have some in person experience.

Edit: and my desire for a remote gate opener is less about interrupting his play in the main game and more him having to get up for the post game OFC play.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I rarely run more than 1 table cash games anymore and have streamlined it so that I almost never need to leave my seat to do anything game related away from the table.

Food is set out before the game starts and other adding more hot dogs to the roller occasionally I don’t have to do much as host during the game.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Some of our tournaments can run five tables. There are times when it is hard to play and also be TD. My players are pretty patient with me when tending to TD duties.

 

[T_Chan]

I accept the fact that if I'm not at my seat, I'm folded just like any other player, but the players always try to give me extra time despite me telling them not to.

Just unsure about giving out the extra information which is kind of inevitable regardless of telling someone beside me, the whole table or nobody, the absence from my seat is a giveaway.

We also play on the 2nd floor, so when I'm downstairs, or even outside to open the gate (we have an automatic gate that closes at night) so I'm often not able to hear them and vice versa. Even if I hear them calling me that it's my turn, I have to boot it around the corner, up a flight of stairs, around another corner to get to my seat.

 

[Marius L]

Is this something that happens a lot? If it's a few times a night I don't think it really matters at all what you do. Just let the tavle know you have some hosting duties and fold out og turn and be done with it. Yes, tiny advantage for some if the players but seriously who cares. If it happens a lot on the other hand, I would wait for my turn, fold and tell them to fold your next hand if you're not back.

 

[Mr Winberg]

The same rules apply to the host as they do to anyone else at the table. If your rule is that you need to be seated or your hand is mucked, then that's what needs to happen.

I respectfully disagree. The host has usually done all the work to organize the tourney, and if he/she is a scrub donkey a lot of money has gone into it as well. Mid tourney when even more work is required of you, I do not agree with the approach to fold the host as you would anyone else. So the table needs to wait 30 seconds? That's a small price to pay for the privilege of attending a well organized tournament, IMO.

In my house rules it says that you get folded if you're not at your set, with the exception of host duties. I don't mention "the host", since I in theory could delegate (but I never do ).

I like the idea of asking them to give you a shout when it's your turn and then ask them to fold you (if you also do that when intending to limp or raise). If leaving the room, you could ask the person to the left, but since you leave the room an observant player would still know that you're folding.

 

[Moxie Mike]

I respectfully disagree. The host has usually done all the work to organize the tourney, and if he/she is a scrub donkey a lot of money has gone into it as well.

This is fine... and if they're 10 feet away that's one thing. And to be clear we're not hardliners about it... for example we don't muck people because they walked to the fridge for a beverage and were gone for a few seconds. But if a dude steps outside to take 2 drags off his cigarette, we're not going to wait on him.

My question is if you're going to bend the rules for the host, where do you draw the line? There's a point where waiting on a single player multiple times a round starts to affect the game.

Just unsure about giving out the extra information which is kind of inevitable regardless of telling someone beside me, the whole table or nobody, the absence from my seat is a giveaway.

Honestly Tony there's validity to your concern I think this is a very minor point. It's admirable that you value the integrity of the competition enough to consider this, but put yourself in the opposite role... if you were contemplating an action and a player had to leave the table with a live hand (for any reason), would that affect your decision? It seems unlikely you'd be doing this after seeing a flop, turn or river... so we're mostly discussing preflop action, right?

 

[BGinGA]

This is fine... and if they're 10 feet away that's one thing. And to be clear we're not hardliners about it... for example we don't muck people because they walked to the fridge for a beverage and were gone for a few seconds. But if a dude steps outside to take 2 drags off his cigarette, we're not going to wait on him.

My question is if you're going to bend the rules for the host, where do you draw the line? There's a point where waiting on a single player multiple times a round starts to affect the game.


Honestly Tony there's validity to your concern I think this is a very minor point. It's admirable that you value the integrity of the competition enough to consider this, but put yourself in the opposite role... if you were contemplating an action and a player had to leave the table with a live hand (for any reason), would that affect your decision? It seems unlikely you'd be doing this after seeing a flop, turn or river... so we're mostly discussing preflop action, right?

Seems pretty cutthroat for a friendly game to not give the host some slack when he's actually providing you services, Mike. It's an easy line to draw, imo -- host or TD conducting official business, nothing else.

Btw, I plan on walking away during every hand tonight where you and I get heads-up after the flop....and return just prior to getting auto-folded (typically around two minutes). Hope your tilt-meter is set on high.

 

[Moxie Mike]

Seems pretty cutthroat for a friendly game to not give the host some slack when he's actually providing you services, Mike. It's an easy line to draw, imo -- host or TD conducting official business, nothing else.

Cut-throat? No but we're pretty firm with sticking to the rules we all agreed to. It's a friendly game and everyone likes each other away from the table... but it's ultra competitive too.

The thing is, I've played in a lot of home games over the years that were very sloppy in terms of rule enforcement and basic etiquette and IMO that's bad for the experience.

Here's sort of an illustration of where I was going with my last remarks... we used to have a one-rebuy rule. Well one game I busted on consecutive hands (first one out) and the group as a whole wanted to let me rebuy, out of 'courtesy to the host' or whatever. I politely thanked them and declined. That's obviously an outright violation of the rule, but illustrates the point I was trying to make.

Btw, I plan on walking away during every hand tonight where you and I get heads-up after the flop....and return just prior to getting auto-folded (typically around two minutes). Hope your tilt-meter is set on high.

Such venom Dave. Luckily, I'll only have to tolerate this for the 11 or 12 minutes that you're in the tournament #shotsfired

 

[Poker Zombie]

There are few times where I as host have to be away from the table.

• Rebuys - I have rebuy stacks in chip tubes right next to me. The tops are secure, so they can be tossed moderate distances without risk. Pass me the rebuy money and I will toss you chips. No time away from the table.
• Knockouts - I also handle from my seat. Wireless keyboards are so cool.
• Food - I schedule a 12 minute break every hour. This gives plenty of time to take care of food and other less-than-urgent matters.
• Spills - We have a towel at each table to handle minor spills. If the spill is more traumatic, we will pause the clock.

So while I have no problem allowing a host some extra time if they absolutely have to be away from the table, anticipation and mitigation goes a long way.

 

[Mr Winberg]

My question is if you're going to bend the rules for the host, where do you draw the line?

I completely agree with this! That's why I have it in my rules that host duties are exempt from the auto-fold rule.
That way, no rules get bent

 

[Poker Zombie]

I completely agree with this! That's why I have it in my rules that host duties are exempt from the auto-fold rule.
That way, no rules get bent

One reason the auto fold rule exists, is because a player that is not "at their seat" has the opportunity to see an opponent's hole cards. Making a rule that the host may do it is intrinsically unfair.

Of course this is a bigger issue in 5+ card games where cards are usually lifted off the table than it is with 2 card hold'em, but you should see the point.

 

[Mr Winberg]

One reason the auto fold rule exists, is because a player that is not "at their seat" has the opportunity to see an opponent's hole cards. Making a rule that the host may do it is intrinsically unfair.

Of course this is a bigger issue in 5+ card games where cards are usually lifted off the table than it is with 2 card hold'em, but you should see the point.

I see the point, but fair would be to let the hosting of tournaments rotate, which won't happen. Since I can live with that unfairness, my players can live with the unfairness of me peeking at everyone's cards while performing host duties. (For some reason I always have a bad back on poker night and need to walk around like Quasimodo with my eyes at table height)

BTW, I don't have a rule that hosts are exempt, it's anyone performing host duties. But so far nobody has volunteered to handle a seat move, a tablebreak etc...