League Tournament - how to play KK (1 Viewer)

I'm not going to draw this out any more, thanks for all the feedback definitely a lot of stuff to think about. I will read through it a couple more times and let it sink in. Always learning!

My thought process after the flop:
I went into the tank a little bit on this one. Since hero is viewed as a tight player and the villain hasn't been very active and it is early, I think he is only raising pre-flop with a very premium hand. I might have narrowed his range a little too much, but at the time I put him on AQ, AK, 1010, JJ, QQ, KK, or AA . After the flop he bet quickly, without much thought. He is normally is a little more calculated with his bets. (of course you guys would not know that) Like he was going to bet regardless of what was on the flop. I am thinking he is not risking a decent % of his stack with AQ/AK without some thought. If he hit a set of 10s he would slow play or think how he wants to play it. I ruled out KK since I have two kings. So that leaves him with JJ, QQ, AA.

One more piece of information: The month before we got in a hand together where he had AA vs my 10,10. He bet quickly and had a very similar posture and look. FYI : I got lucky and caught a 10 on the flop. With all this my gut was telling me he had aces.

FINAL result:
I folded - turning over my kings and said his Aces are good, he showed his AA.

I was right and lost the minimum this time, but how many time would I be wrong? Obviously since it has been a couple of weeks and I was still questioning in my mind if I played it correctly or just got lucky. Not trying to be results oriented, since I went on to win the tournament.
 
p5woody said:
I'm not going to draw this out any more, thanks for all the feedback definitely a lot of stuff to think about. I will read through it a couple more times and let it sink in. Always learning!

My thought process after the flop:
I went into the tank a little bit on this one. Since hero is viewed as a tight player and the villain hasn't been very active and it is early, I think he is only raising pre-flop with a very premium hand. I might have narrowed his range a little too much, but at the time I put him on AQ, AK, 1010, JJ, QQ, KK, or AA . After the flop he bet quickly, without much thought. He is normally is a little more calculated with his bets. (of course you guys would not know that) Like he was going to bet regardless of what was on the flop. I am thinking he is not risking a decent % of his stack with AQ/AK without some thought. If he hit a set of 10s he would slow play or think how he wants to play it. I ruled out KK since I have two kings. So that leaves him with JJ, QQ, AA.

One more piece of information: The month before we got in a hand together where he had AA vs my 10,10. He bet quickly and had a very similar posture and look. FYI : I got lucky and caught a 10 on the flop. With all this my gut was telling me he had aces.

FINAL result:
I folded - turning over my kings and said his Aces are good, he showed his AA.

I was right and lost the minimum this time, but how many time would I be wrong? Obviously since it has been a couple of weeks and I was still questioning in my mind if I played it correctly or just got lucky. Not trying to be results oriented, since I went on to win the tournament.
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It's going to be wrong far more often than it's going to be right. If you make a habit of this, then people can just run you over.
 
Legend5555 said:
It's going to be wrong far more often than it's going to be right. If you make a habit of this, then people can just run you over.
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I agree, I think this is the first time I folded Kings in a situation like this. Of course I know I fold more then I should early in tournaments. I get more aggressive as I get deeper into the tournament. Also when the blinds go up, I use my tight image to pick up more pots. Later in the night I lose my stack
 
Oh man that’s a crazy fold. Your timing tell on the flop might be pretty good. Obviously can’t use it against everybody but good pickup.

And then you might have torched it by showing KK right there as villain is probably stunned as to how he didn’t get any value, and if expect to be a lot more deliberate with mannerisms against you going forward. Don’t ever show a hero fold
 
Legend5555 said:
It's going to be wrong far more often than it's going to be right. If you make a habit of this, then people can just run you over.
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When you have information about a player and his habits, with live tells and all, an irregular move like that considering circumstances would give the man a pass. Obvious don't do this often, but live reads can definitely make a difference.
 
Frogzilla said:
Oh man that’s a crazy fold. Your timing tell on the flop might be pretty good. Obviously can’t use it against everybody but good pickup.

And then you might have torched it by showing KK right there as villain is probably stunned as to how he didn’t get any value, and if expect to be a lot more deliberate with mannerisms against you going forward. Don’t ever show a hero fold
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In this league I take every opportunity to build and maintain my tight image, it helps me later in the evening. People play loose early and tighten up later. I never show bluffs
 
Thomacetti said:
Well played, if you have a solid read (with previous play to back that up)...you have to follow that.
Folding KK is -EV but against AA not so much ;)
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Not sure if it is a solid read, but I was right this time :)
next time he will show me 23 off
 
My tournament philosophy is a little different than that of others, so take the following for what it's worth.

It's early in the tournament, and you can't win the tournament on this hand. Even doubling up isn't much of an advantage since everyone is still pretty deeply stacked. The extra chips will give you a better shot at longevity, but accumulating a massive pile of chips isn't a priority at this stage of the game.

Preflop in regard to the aggression you're facing:

You may be perceived as having a weak holding considering the small raise you made from the button after two limpers. The raise to 1800 you're facing doesn't feel like it's coming from a place looking for a fold... that's a very callable raise and your opponent probably wants action.

The case for flatting is that your hand strength will be well disguised while allowing you to get away from it relatively cheaply if an ace flops - which is perfectly fine as gross as it feels at the time.

That said, I'd suggest repopping it to around 4200. You obviously almost certainly have the best hand. Never a bad strategy to bet with the best of it. Taking the pot down uncontested is a solid result. Nothing wrong with playing small ball here.

On the flop, by flatting pre you've committed to play a large pot. You got what is basically a perfect flop for KK... and you're facing a sizable bet. At this point you're not getting away from KK, so you might as well jam. If you run into Aces, sometimes there's just nothing you can do.
 
p5woody said:
FINAL result:
I folded - turning over my kings and said his Aces are good, he showed his AA.
Click to expand...

Very well done. It's takes an ungodly amount of discipline to release KK there. To be correct I am sure is very gratifying.

Congratulations also for just in general for being an observant player - you recognized a pattern and were able to apply that knowledge in real time. Outstanding. I am impressed.
 
I get the fold. But why did you show? Was there some conversation that he'd show if you folded? To me you set yourself up for the future. They know you'll fold KK.
 
Steve Birrer said:
I get the fold. But why did you show? Was there some conversation that he'd show if you folded? To me you set yourself up for the future. They know you'll fold KK.
Click to expand...
No conversation in this hand, however this a monthly league that I have played in for the last 3 or 4 years. I have been trying to maintain a very tight image, I show all of my big laydowns and try not to show any bluffs. This has worked out well for me over the years, because people play very loose and aggressive early on and then tighten up as we approach the money. I adjust my style as the night progresses, I start out tight showing big laydown, etc. Then as the blinds go up I can start picking up pots because people think my hands are stronger then they might actually be. Or if I flop the nuts and check they think they can push me off the hand and again I can pick up more chips. This obviously doesn't work against the better more observant players, but they are not all good players :)

So more of a long term strategy for this specific game.

Oh yea, also this is a friendly game, if a person calls your hand and they are right, the better players reward you by showing their hand (not required and sometimes people don't). So me showing my kings and calling his hand gave me the information I wanted. If he had aces he would show or he would muck and tell me I was right (meaning I was wrong).
 
I think your tight image is already established. No way on Earth I’m showing the better players at the table that they can push me off KK. There are better ways to establish and maintain a table image.
 

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