Tourney League Advice Please! (1 Viewer)

[v1pe]

I hosted monthly pretty regularly last year...and would like to continue that trend. This year I'm considering starting up a league with the hopes that it will generate more interest and get people to attend more regularly. For context, my largest showing last year was 20 people and my smallest showing was maybe ~8.

I would like to implement something simple, preferably with a website that helps track and allows my players to view standings. It would be awesome if the website also calculated points automatically, but I understand that might not be a think. I use Tournament Director which I understand can upload results to various websites for leagues and saving history...has anyone used this export function of the software? I wouldn't mind some set-up pain if it meant automation in the long term.

My main issue is incentivizing participation. I would like to offer a "championship game" in which some money has been seeded throughout the year by the participants. I play in one league with a $30 buy-in that collects a percentage of the buy-in/pot each month and gives half of the collection to the final game pot, and uses the other half to pay the top 3 finishers a percentage of the remaining half each. I like this system, but my tournaments have historically been only $10-15 buy in, and I have many guys that are probably not willing to spend more than that, even on a monthly basis. I have often done rebuys, so it's possible I could raise the buy-in to $20 and run a freeze out (no re-entry/re-buy) and still maintain the majority of my crew.

I'm really just looking for ideas...I know I can search here for plenty of ideas regarding point systems and prizes/payouts, but I haven't seen many league related posts with a small buy-in, or details about how much to "rake" from each buy-in to help bolster the championship game pot.

My initial thought is this:
- 10 league games per year (roughly monthly), $20 buy-in freeze out tournament (no re-entry/re-buy)
- 1 championship game in December or January, $40 buy-in deep-stack freeze out tournament (?)
- Likely going to be 12-18 players consistently
- Points system TBD (would like something fairly simple that promotes solid play and is fair)
- 15% of pot "raked" to go towards championship game seed OR to be paid out to top 3 league finishers (?)

Any input is appreciated!

 

[navels]

I play in a similar kind of tournament. Differences are:

1. championship game is a freeroll
2. starting stack in final is determined by your accumulated points
3. scheduling of the final gives priority to the top 5 in points
4. buy-ins are $10 with unlimited rebuys the first few hours

The TD is stepping down this year so I am going to try to run it (WITH MY CHIPS HEE HEE). Waiting to get a copy of the results database and the points system.

This is me binking the end-of-year freeroll championship. I also took first in points:

 

[krafticus]

While my buy in is a tad bigger ($60), I run a "league". I use the "" as it is a non-committal league, in that anyone/everyone is welcome to play. Of the $60 buy in, $10 goes to the final free-roll game. $10 is a bounty, and the remaining $40 goes to the prize pool that evening. I run 1 tournament each month and calculate points/chips based on the position you bust out. I invite the top 30 players to the final game (as I only have 3 tables). Once they can't make it, I start going down the list. for 2018-2019, I will have had 330 buy-ins, for a total prize pool of $3300. I'm pulling a small portion of that for a small bonus during the final game as well.

I found this works well, as there is no long term commitment. I've had players play every game, and the player who only wants to play once or twice per year. they go in knowing that a portion of the buy-in goes to that final game.

For my final game, I will also be providing food and beverages. I've asked all players attending to pitch in.

For your event, you could do a $20 buy-in, and pull $5 from each buy-in to go to a final game. If you get an average of 12 players, that is roughly a $700 prize pool. Not too bad for a few $20 buy ins.

I can go into more details if you would like.

Mark

 

[bsdunbar1]

I can get into the weeds of "why" we do certain things, but non the less here is how we do what we do. We also are "non-committed" to having to play every single week. This works well for the guys who can & those who can't play every week.
We have a Facebook Page to keep up with the general happenings - PPL League
I generally don't post anything money related on Facebook. For anything $$$ related I have a google drive set up and only allow the members access. I have software that calculates the points totals and such but can't rely on any software except Excel for the quirks that are unique to us, so that is what gets kept on the google drive.

• 15 Weeks, $25 each week
• Play 1 week or play all 15
• $5 from each $25 entry + $5 from each rebuy + $5 for each add-on will go to the season ending Freeroll for the Championship
• Remaining $$ gets paid out to the weekly game
• Top 8 points earners after 15 weeks will play in the Freeroll for the Championship. Only your top 12 scores play, bottom 3 will get dropped off
• Dr Neau’s poker points system

• 1 Rebuy per person per week $25 ($5 from each Rebuy goes towards season ending freeroll)
  OR
• 1 Add-on per person per week, $5 for 1500 chips. ($5 add-on goes towards season ending freeroll)

Final Table Freeroll for the Championship

• Cards fly @ 8:00, entries can start as late as 9:10. No new entries will be allowed after 9:10 exactly
• $1000 chip bonus for everyone seated when the cards fly @ 8:00
• Re-Buys allowed through the first 3 levels (until 9:00)
• Shoes off if there is rain or snow outside
• Do Not do anything to piss off the neighbors. Park in parking spots, don’t block a driveway or park on the west side of the street, no loud noises outside @ 1am, etc.
• The House has final rulings on all decisions

 

[CraigT78]

From my 2019 Rules:

League
Prize Money

1. $100 from the monthly tournament prize pool is withheld to fund the Tournament of Champions Free-Roll
2. $50 from the monthly tournament prize pool is withheld and reserved for the league winner cash prize

Invites

• There will be two signup lists, the first to the Windy Crest “Legacy” players, and a second to all players who joined after 2015. The Legacy group will have the right of first refusal to the scheduled league games, and the remaining seats will be available at a first come – first serve format via the signup link
• A Legacy Player is defined as a player who has played regularly since the WCPR opened in 2015
• The signup will go live at 7pm on the date specified, at least one week prior to the scheduled game with the number of available seats for that game
• Unique link will be provided for each game
• There will only be one month available to signup for at a time, but future game dates will be published as I schedule them

On Time Chip Bonus

1. An on-time chip bonus of 10% of the starting stack will be paid to all players who are paid and registered prior to the 8pm start time of regular tournament games
2. Venmo or PayPal entries are accepted prior to 6pm on game night if you know you are going to be late. Your chips will be placed at your seat and blinded off. The on-time bonus will be paid; however, the entry fee is non-refundable. All players must arrive prior to the start of the first round following the break, or your chips and entry fee will be forfeited

League Scoring and Tournament of Champions

• League points are assigned using the following formula
• SQRT (a * b * (b / c)) / (d + 1.0))
• a = Number of Players
• b = Buy-in Amount
• c = Total Expense (Buy-in + Re-buys + Add-on)
• d = Player Finish Position
• Player must finish in the top 10 and have a minimum of 5 games played to eligible for the ToC
• The top finisher in the league will win the player of the year trophy, POY prize money, and 12 months of bragging rights
• In the unlikely event of a tie for 10th and 11th place, the seat will be awarded to the player with the greater number of games attended

Tournament of Champions

• Game will be held on the date where the most players in the top 10 are available
• Survey Monkey will be sent out with dates available for the game
• Date will be decided based off the date that receives the most responses
• In the event you cannot make the game, your spot will be forfeited, and the tournament will play short
• Preferred date is the first weekend after RISD Christmas Vacation
• Payout will be 50%/30%/20% of the prize pool
• Winner will have their name on the ToC Champions Trophy and will win the card capper
• Chips will be awarded in the following format
• The player with the lowest number of games attended will set the baseline
• All scores below baseline will be thrown out and the new scores will be calculated
• Starting Stack will be issued at 1k chips per point, rounded up to the next whole number
• Bonus chips will be awarded as outlined
• 1000 chips for each win
• 500 chips for each bounty earned
• 500 chips for each event appearance
• 500 chips deducted for each re-buy purchased
• Any negative bouns chip amount will result in zero bonus chips, the starting stack will NOT be deducted due to a negative bonus chip amount

 

[krafticus]

For reference, here is the excel formula that I use:
=(ROUND(LOG(($F$3+5)/A8,10)*100,0)*15)*2
$F$3 = total number of buy-ins + rebuys
A8 = Rank
Not sure where the numbers were derived from, but it works.
Once the score is determined, we also add an additional 100 points for each knockout.

Below, you can see the monthly points, and "rounded" column. this will be that player's starting stack for the final game.
our current points (top 18 or so). the gray line is me. The top line is @Chippy McChiperson

Mark

 

[bsdunbar1]

From my 2019 Rules:
$50 from the monthly tournament prize pool is withheld and reserved for the league winner cash prize

I like this idea! We are going to do something similar this next season to reward the season points winner. Currently if you won the season points battle you start with the most chips in the freeroll but could be knocked out in 8th place and end up with nothing.

 

[CraigT78]

I like this idea! We are going to do something similar this next season to reward the season points winner. Currently if you won the season points battle you start with the most chips in the freeroll but could be knocked out in 8th place and end up with nothing.

This was the most received commentI got over the last three years - pay the P.O.Y something for winning it all (season).

 

[krafticus]

This was the most received commentI got over the last three years - pay the P.O.Y something for winning it all (season).

Doesn't the person with the most points usually win the most money in the tournaments anyway?

 

[bsdunbar1]

Doesn't the person with the most points usually win the most money in the tournaments anyway?

Yeah in our league usually the points leader at the end has won the most money from the weekly prizes, but 2nd place usually makes a bunch as well and 3rd and so on......
A close points race would be fun having an additional reward.

 

[CraigT78]

Doesn't the person with the most points usually win the most money in the tournaments anyway?

Not necessarily. My 7th place player had the most 'profit' for the year, while #1 won the most money, he also had a larger expense.

 

[bsdunbar1]

From my 2019 Rules:

• All scores below baseline will be thrown out and the new scores will be calculated
• Starting Stack will be issued at 1k chips per point, rounded up to the next whole number
• Bonus chips will be awarded as outlined
• 1000 chips for each win
• 500 chips for each bounty earned
• 500 chips for each event appearance
• 500 chips deducted for each re-buy purchased
• Any negative bouns chip amount will result in zero bonus chips, the starting stack will NOT be deducted due to a negative bonus chip amount

Just ROUGHLY, what are the starting stack ranges for your TOC?

 

[timinater]

I spell out how my league works over here. https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/sunday-night-poker-season-17.35689/

Hopefully you get some ideas for yours there. Let me know if you have any questions!

 

[v1pe]

This was the most received commentI got over the last three years - pay the P.O.Y something for winning it all (season).

The other league I play in does something similar, paying out the 1st place finisher something like 25% of the final "league pot", 2nd place 15%, and 3rd place 10%. 1st through 4th also get into the final tourney as a freeroll. 5th thru 10th only pay 1/2 price buy in for the final tourney.

I like the idea of giving the top 1-3 players something on top of extra chips as well.

 

[v1pe]

For reference, here is the excel formula that I use:
=(ROUND(LOG(($F$3+5)/A8,10)*100,0)*15)*2
$F$3 = total number of buy-ins + rebuys
A8 = Rank
Not sure where the numbers were derived from, but it works.
Once the score is determined, we also add an additional 100 points for each knockout.

Below, you can see the monthly points, and "rounded" column. this will be that player's starting stack for the final game.
our current points (top 18 or so). the gray line is me. The top line is @Chippy McChiperson
View attachment 234630
Mark

So you manually track buy in, rebuy, and knockout, or does your tourney software help handle the accounting?

What software do you use?

 

[v1pe]

I play in a similar kind of tournament. Differences are:

1. championship game is a freeroll
2. starting stack in final is determined by your accumulated points
3. scheduling of the final gives priority to the top 5 in points
4. buy-ins are $10 with unlimited rebuys the first few hours

The TD is stepping down this year so I am going to try to run it (WITH MY CHIPS HEE HEE). Waiting to get a copy of the results database and the points system.

This is me binking the end-of-year freeroll championship. I also took first in points:

View attachment 234610

Once you get a copy of the system, let us know a little more about how it works? I assume only the top X finishers are able to play in the freeroll, and some sort of money is "raked" from each game to seed the pot?

Cool that you are taking over hosting!

 

[krafticus]

So you manually track buy in, rebuy, and knockout, or does your tourney software help handle the accounting?

What software do you use?

I use tournament director. you can set it up to allow rebuys, number of rebuys person, when to stop them, etc. Once the event is over, I just export the player list, and copy it into an excel spreadsheet that is ready to go. Here is what the other tab looks like, from the screen shot I entered before:

 

[v1pe]

I spell out how my league works over here. https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/sunday-night-poker-season-17.35689/

Hopefully you get some ideas for yours there. Let me know if you have any questions!

Lots of great info in there!

How do you decide which format you are going to run each game night? Do you rotate them (i.e. Freezeout > Bounty > Rebuy > Repeat)?

 

[v1pe]

I use tournament director. you can set it up to allow rebuys, number of rebuys person, when to stop them, etc. Once the event is over, I just export the player list, and copy it into an excel spreadsheet that is ready to go. Here is what the other tab looks like, from the screen shot I entered before:

View attachment 234646

Excellent, I was hoping TD had that kind of functionality!

 

[T_Chan]

For our league we try to keep things simple.

$60 buy in. $10 from each entry goes towards the season finale. $10 goes for food. The rest is the pot for that night.

Season finale game is not a freeroll, but is only $50, $40 of which goes to that night's pot to juice it up. With 30ish players, it adds quite a bit more to the pot.

To give incentive for players to show up all year, we give a lot of extra chips for attendance. This is our season finale starting stack structure:

(Starting Stack of 10,000) + (Attendance x 1000 per game played) + (Season Points x 20)

Example: Daniel Moneymaker shows up to 7 games and has 250 points. He gets:

(10,000) + (7 games x 1000) + (250 x 20 points) = 22,000 chips

We've done this for the last few years and it's worked out great. In earlier years, we took $20 from each player per night to go towards the season finale, but then the pot for each night got pretty small. Winning a tourney wouldn't pay out much since we pay deep (top 20%). However then the season finale was a freeroll as the prize pool was bigger.

Minimum 4 games played to qualify for the final as well. We are playing our last game of the season tonight, and then have the season finale on a Saturday so that we can play all day, starting from 2pm for a nice slow structure.

We used to have our season finale in Dec, but people had a hard time committing due to the time of year. January tends to work better as things slow down a lot in the new year.

 

[CraigT78]

Just ROUGHLY, what are the starting stack ranges for your TOC?

This is what last year would have been with this years rules.

 

[bsdunbar1]

This is what last year would have been with this years rules.

View attachment 234651

79k in chips???
Approx how many BB is that?
I sure hope you aren't starting out with 25/50 blinds

Regardless of any of that it looks like your Big Stack has ~double the Short Stack, which is relatively the same as our structure.
One could argue if you are deducting chips for rebuy's it is a double whammy since Dr Neau's system already penalizes you for that within your points accrued.

 

[CraigT78]

One could argue if you are deducting chips for rebuy's it is a double whammy since Dr Neau's system already penalizes you for that within your points accrued

It’s been argued already, trust me

 

[timinater]

Lots of great info in there!

How do you decide which format you are going to run each game night? Do you rotate them (i.e. Freezeout > Bounty > Rebuy > Repeat)?

Usually goes like this:

1. Bounty (for airing of grievances from Final Table)
2. Freezeout
3. Freezeout
4. Freezeout
5. Deepstack
6. Freezeout
7. Freezeout
8. Re-Buy (to juice the Final Table)

 

[1A25R]

From the top of my head because it was long time ago...
We play the last Thursday of each month
You must play 4 tournament to qualify to be eligible to the final table (if you got enough points)
Points per tournament were earn using a ratio depending on how many players show up at the tournament (we usually ran between 5 to 6 tables x8 players each)
Top 10 scores are invited to join the final table, if there is a decline the invitation goes to the next in the ranking
A side event is open to everyone the same date of the final table
Prizes were provided by sponsors
It was a free roll league.
We user Tournament Director and we sported monthly results as Excel file that could be easy uploaded to a web site that shown points per tournament played and general ranking.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Season finale game is not a freeroll, but is only $50,

We do the same thing.

 

[markleteenie]

For Bounty games, can rebuys be allowed? Would each rebuy get another bounty token?

 

[CraigT78]

For Bounty games, can rebuys be allowed? Would each rebuy get another bounty token?

Yes and yes. All my games are rebuy. When you get knocked out you give your rebuy chip to the winner and you buy a new one. There are variants to this, but the above is how I do it.

 

[markleteenie]

Yes and yes. All my games are rebuy. When you get knocked out you give your rebuy chip to the winner and you buy a new one. There are variants to this, but the above is how I do it.

Thanks, that makes sense.

Do you cap rebuys per tournaments (i.e. 6), by player (i.e. 1 per), or leave it unlimited until the rebuy window ends?
Have you heard of a structure where rebuys are shorter than the inital buy in but they are the same in chips?
Do you use a one time (at the end of rebuy window) optional add-on?

 

[CraigT78]

Thanks, that makes sense.

Do you cap rebuys per tournaments (i.e. 6), by player (i.e. 1 per), or leave it unlimited until the rebuy window ends?
Have you heard of a structure where rebuys are shorter than the inital buy in but they are the same in chips?
Do you use a one time (at the end of rebuy window) optional add-on?

I close re-buys at the first break (~2 hours) and allow unlimited rebuy. Because my point system is based off total entry cost, a re-buy will negatively affect you. I average 5 to 6 re-buy per game. It's $80 entry, $50 to prize pool, $20 hospitality, and $10 bounty. Re-buy are $50 - $40 to prize pool, $10 bounty. I offer a 1 time add on for 1/2 starting stack at the break for $20. I average 18 players a game for this.