KK Deep, 5-Handed (1 Viewer)

[Jimulacrum]

Game: weekly $0.25/$0.50 NLHE cash game, $20 max buy-in.

Characters:

Hero ($360, MP): Strong loose/aggressive image among all players, over a long term (months with some, over a year with others). Straddles every UTG hand. This is Hero's last orbit of the night, announced a few hands ago.
Carlos ($300, BTN): Somewhat loose/aggressive in early rounds but tends not to waste a lot of money when it matters, plays position well, definitely targeting Hero tonight. Plays often, likes to gamble, and seems to play in bigger games than this one.
Old Man Oliver ($40, SB): Plays somewhat loose/passive preflop, generally has strong holdings if he gets aggressive. Can be very sticky once he's invested in a pot but makes surprising folds other times. Gets out of line once in a while post-flop.
The Host ($20, BB): On monkey-tilt tonight, burning through $20 rebuys like crazy, has shoved with air preflop multiple times in past several orbits, in for at least $300. A reasonably decent TAG on most nights, but not tonight.
The Lady ($200, UTG): Has a generally leaky game. Calls too many raises and reraises preflop and out of position, has physical tells, fears monsters under the bed too much. Does well against some players in the game but not others.

Important note: We have a side bet in this game: a dish gets passed around as the "button," and the button player has to put $1 in it. (We have one player who opts out, but he has left.) If the button wins the hand, he wins the money in the dish. If not, it gets passed along. There is $19 in it right now, which is about as big as it gets. Carlos very frequently goes out of his way to try to win the hand on his button to win the dish, especially if there's a lot in it. He sometimes makes disproportionately large preflop raises when that is the case (e.g., $8, $12).

Hero looks down at .

The Lady calls for $0.50. Hero?

 

[FDLmold]

Raise enough to let Carlos know that if he wants the dish, he is going to risk his stack along with it.

 

[inca911]

From what you've described, I limp call. That allows Carlos to target you + try to steal the dish with a raise, so you can come over the top pre-flop for a quick $40 win. As you have also announced final orbit, this is your last chance to stand up to Carlos tonight. All the circumstances make for a nice setup. Monkey-tilting Host isn't going to let the action stop on your limp call (i.e., so your limping is extremely unlikely to cost you anything in terms of opportunity to act again)....

 

[krafticus]

$1000 on the table with a $20 max buy in? Sounds .... interesting.... 50+ buy ins??

 

[Rhodeman77]

I like a small raise here. Something that is easy to 3 bet, probably to $2. It will look like you are trying to juice the pot with a suited connector or smal pocket pair.

 

[DrStrange]

I agree with the limp / 3-bet strategy. As deep as the stacks are, lets shoot for the moon and get a nice low SPR or go set mining with the pair.

Hero isn't stacking off with an overpair in a limped pot.

 

[Jimulacrum]

$1000 on the table with a $20 max buy in? Sounds .... interesting.... 50+ buy ins??

Yes. Lots of rebuying in this game. It used to be a $0.50/$1 game with $20/40/60 progressive buy-ins as stacks reached $100 and $200. Had to shrink to $0.25/$0.50 to keep the game together, but it's almost exactly the same cast of characters playing for around the same amount of money.

I like a small raise here. Something that is easy to 3 bet, probably to $2. It will look like you are trying to juice the pot with a suited connector or smal pocket pair.

If I were to raise to $2, it would be extremely suspicious. Standard preflop raise from me is between $3.50 and $5, in which case I don't see Carlos 3-betting light. When he 3-bets, he usually means it. No one raises less than $2.25. And players generally don't 3-bet me without massive strength anyway because I'm perceived as a loose cannon, and they tend to want to let me hang myself. (See note above about it previously being a $0.50/$1 game. My standard raise used to be $6–8.)

I agree with the limp / 3-bet strategy. As deep as the stacks are, lets shoot for the moon and get a nice low SPR or go set mining with the pair.

Hero isn't stacking off with an overpair in a limped pot.

I won't drag the limping decision out. I agreed with this too. I almost raised out of instinct, but going for the backraise won out.

The Lady calls $0.50.
Hero calls $0.50.
Carlos raises to $15. (!!!!!!!)
Old Man Oliver folds.
The Host calls $15. (He is getting the remaining $5 in the pot 100% of the time, BTW.)
The Lady calls $15.
Hero?

Raising is pretty much a given. It's really just a question of sizing.

 

[inca911]

If you are able to fold pocket kings if an Ace hits, or if someone shoves back at you pre-flop, raise up to $150 (a nice $100 on top would be my preference). If you won't do that ever, just push all-in and take it down (i.e., if you end up beating the host's calling hand).

 

[krafticus]

$65 to go...

 

[Rhodeman77]

My gut says to go to $100. But maybe a little less might get you a call. At least $80 though.

More than happy to take this pot down now, besides getting called by the host for his last $5 and having to run it out against him.

 

[Forty4]

$60 in the pot after your $15 so raise has to be a minimum of $60 in my mind. A stack of $5 is a nice fluid motion so let’s make it an even $100 total bet ($85 raise).

 

[kmccormick100]

I make it about $75 (3x $15 + $15 +$15) and call off a shove.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I thought about doing maybe $75 or $100 and settled on $80. In retrospect, I think I would do $100 instead, and I don't even hate a shove, but I also don't love playing for 600 BB effective stacks all-in preflop in Hold'em, like ever. (Also, Carlos never runs it twice.) Especially when I may be setting myself up to scare off everything but AA.

Anyway:

Hero reraises to $80.
Carlos hesitates and ponders, and eventually calls $80.
The Host insta-calls his remaining $5.
The Lady folds.

Main pot: $75.50
Side pot: $120

The flop:

Hero ($280) is first to act and covers Carlos ($220). Action?

 

[derekdd23]

I thought about doing maybe $75 or $100 and settled on $80. In retrospect, I think I would do $100 instead, but $80 it was.

Hero reraises to $80.
Carlos hesitates and ponders, and eventually calls $80.
The Host insta-calls remaining $5.
The Lady folds.

Main pot: $75.50
Side pot: $120

The flop:

Hero is first to act. Action?

Check

 

[kmccormick100]

Check or a small bet of like $60. Is Carlos sticky post flop, or fit or fold?

 

[inca911]

Main pot: $75.50
Side pot: $120

The flop:

Hero ($280) is first to act and covers Carlos ($220). Action?

Bet $80, before he does. Your pre-flop bet puts AK (or better) easily within your range. Remind yourself that you were willing to fold if an Ace came on the flop.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Check or a small bet of like $60. Is Carlos sticky post flop, or fit or fold?

Carlos has been sticky with me post-flop a few times earlier in the night, but when it's for smaller bets relative to stack sizes. I would not say he's a "sticky Villain" in general.

Bet $80, before he does. Your pre-flop bet puts AK (or better) easily within your range. Remind yourself that you were willing to fold if an Ace came on the flop.

It's worth noting that Carlos has had two recent experiences with me that make him extremely unlikely to bluff:

1. I caught Old Man Oliver with his hand in the cookie jar in a nice-sized pot, calling with unimproved KQ on the end (versus his QJ). If I remember the details correctly, it checked around on a 972 flop, a 7 came on the turn, and he bet $10 OOP into a $21 (or maybe $28?) pot. I was the only caller, and then he led out for $15 on a blank river. I hesitated and kinda made a big show of grilling him and pondering a call. (He seemed visibly flustered that I was doing it, on top of the betting pattern being fishy.) As I was scooping the pot, Carlos was pretty vocal about his shock that I could call there.

2. Later on, not long before this KK hand, I snapped off Carlos in a somewhat similar spot (24 on a board like K5949) for decent-sized bets on the turn and river. He was again vocal about his shock that I could call, and he essentially said he's done trying to bluff me for the night.

With that said, I'm the one who probably looks sticky here, so I'm not especially worried about Carlos trying to buy this pot after I just made it $80 preflop—my only such massive bet this evening, and only backraise like ever in the history of this game. He has watched me lay a few check-traps up to this point (twice with flopped full houses), and he tends to figure me for bare aggression a lot when I bet, so he may even fear a check more than a bet.

By the way, I doubt he's especially concerned about taking down that $18 in the dish at this point.

This is a pretty interesting decision point for me, so I'll leave it open a little longer.

 

[Kain8]

Fire a decent bet to keep the momentum up. About $80 - $110. If you get shoved on, cross that bridge if and when it happens.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Carlos did make it $15 preflop before your 3-bet so he could have a strong pocket pair like QQ down to 88 and felt you had enough AK in your 3 bet range to call looking for a clean (no A or K) flop.

If you don’t think Carlos has much of any bluff in him right now I would consider going into a check call mode to keep his weaker PP hands in his range.

If he checks behind I figure to be good here most of the time and bet the turn.

 

[inca911]

Fire a decent bet to keep the momentum up. About $80 - $110. If you get shoved on, cross that bridge if and when it happens.

Unless you are picking up additional player read information, the time is to decide what you will do if he shoves on you is *right now*. I bet the 80, knowing I will fold to a shove--unless I get a read. My $0.02, interested to see how it runs out!

 

[DrStrange]

Hero gets one more bet. He can take it now, or delay it for a turn. If checking, hero is check/folding.

The lack of a club matters.

The least Hero can bet is "same bet". Let's bet $80, but this is the last chip I advocate Hero puts in the pot without making a set or catching runner-runner broadway.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I'll explain why I made the move I did.

1. I'm in a spot where, if I'm ahead, a free card is not a big deal. The overcard is already out there, and it's unlikely he called the $80 with a hand that's drawing to a flush or straight. All I really fear is a pair of aces or a set.
2. I've cultivated an image of a guy who won't be pushed around and may well trap you, so Carlos should be playing pretty straightforwardly. I am not too worried about him making a move.
3. If I shove, he's calling with 100% (or nearly so) of the hands that beat me and likely folding almost all of the hands that I beat. I'm not making a "small" $80-ish bet for essentially the same reason. That's a lot to pay for not a whole lot of information. (Also, same-size flop bets are not a thing I do, almost ever, and he would notice, so it may even make him more likely to try to steal than a check.)
4. If I check and he checks behind, I can be pretty confident I'm ahead and can shove the turn. Not only that, but I may induce him to call my impending turn shove with QQ or JJ.

That was my thinking, anyway. Obviously this is a shit flop for KK, and I'm in damage-control mode now. Final decision coming up:

Hero checks.
Carlos quickly shoves ($220).
Hero?

 

[DrStrange]

Fold!

Looking at the villain description and the just prior post, there is not good case for a "hero" call. I made my choice in the first post ITT, if hero checks, it is a check/fold.

Also, Hero gets to learn something useful since the winning hand gets tabled at the end, if not right now when the hand is heads-up

DrStrange

 

[Forty4]

Fold. For all the logical reasons you already stated.

 

[jja412]

Fold, because you just checked, and ruined any chance of narrowing his hand range from betting the flop.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Fold, because you just checked, and ruined any chance of narrowing his hand range from betting the flop.

Actually, you're making a case for calling. If my checking makes his shoving range broad enough, I can call with KK and be ahead often enough to be profitable. It's the same principle as checking the river with the intention of calling rather than betting out, because you expect to be called only when beat, but your opponent may bet light if you check.

 

[derekdd23]

Fold. There are so many better spots to get your money in, I don’t think his bluff frequency will be high enough.

 

[jja412]

I'm not making the case for calling. I'm making the case for folding 100% of the time in this spot when you three bet to 160x, get called, then check the flop and get shoved on. You advertised your hand very well (I HAVE KK), you say he's going to play straight forward due to your image, and the flop has an ace. Fold.

Actually, you're making a case for calling. If my checking makes his shoving range broad enough, I can call with KK and be ahead often enough to be profitable. It's the same principle as checking the river with the intention of calling rather than betting out, because you expect to be called only when beat, but your opponent may bet light if you check.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I'm not making the case for calling. I'm making the case for folding 100% of the time in this spot when you three bet to 160x, get called, then check the flop and get shoved on. You advertised your hand very well (I HAVE KK), …

I don't think I'm advertising my hand very well. I'm checking a lot of big hands (e.g., AA, AK, TT, AT) for deception here, and I have a wild enough image that my 3-bet doesn't automatically mean AA/KK/QQ. But just suppose that my check turns my hand face-up. What you're saying is that my opponent's decision to bet is going to be influenced by the fact that he "knows" I have KK on an A-high board. That's the only reason it should matter that I've advertised my hand. That should broaden his betting range. That's why I said you were making a case for calling.

… you say he's going to play straight forward due to your image, and the flop has an ace. Fold.

But here you are, saying what I'm saying, and the opposite of your previous statement—that it doesn't broaden his betting range at all because of the session history. He sees me as a loose cannon and is only betting the goods because he expects me to call. So the fact that I check doesn't force me to fold or prevent me from narrowing his hand range. Betting wouldn't do anything but cost me a lot of unnecessary money. His hand range is narrowed very well already. I don't have to spend money to narrow it.

Fold. There are so many better spots to get your money in, I don’t think his bluff frequency will be high enough.

This was exactly my thinking. Carlos is betting here expecting to get called, fearlessly shoving his stack into a loose cannon who just made a massive 3-bet and has shown a propensity to set traps and make crazy hero calls all night.

Hero folds and bemoans the ace on board, suggesting Carlos must have hit it.
Carlos, "I don't have an ace."
Carlos flips for bottom set.

That ace saved my ass.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Very poorly played by Carlos. He let you off the hook cheap. Checking behind makes much more sense.

Let’s you think he may have missed the Ace as well and that your pocket pair is better than his and induce a bet on the turn. Or to at least call a bet on the turn if you check again.