Just curious what people's opinions were ........ (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter David Spragg
- Start date
OP
OP
And what happens when the chip prices drop from the $1.70-$1.99 range to the $1.10-$1.29 level?
Like I said, not many non-enthusiasts are willing to pony up that kind of cash. 15,000 chips is only 30 customers on average.
OP
OP
Paulsons sales were over 25 years. Ours is 6 months. Hardly a fair comparison.
Actually, the Paulson/GPI sales were over a period of roughly 10 years (2004-2014) -- and sales of their five different chip lines on home market molds (Classic, CdI, NPS, WTHC, Pharaohs) were well over two million chips, or around 200,000 chips per year (vs an estimated 30,000). It's a fair comparison.
Meddler2
Full House
Aside from Tv's and jewelry, I've seen very few items at Costco anywhere near $750 
In all seriousness, I don't know anybody outside of this community that would pay anywhere near $750 for a set of chips.
The casual observer would wonder what the hell kinda crack we be smokin'.
In all seriousness, I don't know anybody outside of this community that would pay anywhere near $750 for a set of chips.
The casual observer would wonder what the hell kinda crack we be smokin'.
superchromix
Full House
Here's an example of what I might offer if I was in @David Spragg 's shoes. I kept the bases as weighted colors because I assume that's what he would want to do.
(1) hostamped solid frac is optional but cool, could do as GB / separate runs as suggested
(2) 1-25 are level one, 100-1000 level two to keep your costs down
(3) slap on a professional but generic enough inlay, could even do some kind of color matching as it won't increase your costs
(4) ...
(5) profit
(y) :thumbsup:
Edit: Noticed I was lazy and duplicated Blurble, not a hard fix if don't like that.
Edit2: Possible 5k and 25k as 44mm chips via GB / separate run...
Love these designs. I think you could do quite well with all level 1 spots here too.
superchromix
Full House
If I recall my pre-PCF days... I once thought that ~$0.50 /chip was reasonable for premium quality chips. And that's why I didn't buy a large set of home Paulson's while I still could
.
CPC has a decent variety of stock sets available and have sold about 15,000 of them, so I'm sure @David Spragg knows what some people are willing to pay and also which sets are popular. Without knowing that though, here are my thoughs on the current offerings:
- None of the inlay designs are particularly good, hotstamp is nice but basically the same as Grand Cardroom, be more original
- Offering the same design on different molds seems confusing
- Rounders chips will sell because of the movie and having them is a jackpot, maybe the Eagle chips sell because of 'murica..?
- You lack the option of solid chips with inlays
Since (at least some of) these stock sets are selling, there is clearly a market for them. However, I would put more emphasis on great inlay design. I believe it to be just as important as the color/insert choices if not more so (Paulson's in-house designs ignored this aspect, be better than them). I would keep offering sets in different price ranges (solids, low level spotted, high level spotted) as people will be looking for different things / have different amounts of money to spend. Finally, below is an example of how a decent inlay adds to the chip (my first set from ASM). By no means a great design, but gives the chips a very different look compared to black elements on a white background. Many sets have passed through my doors over the years, but these remain a favorite at my table.
Edit: And if you are going to replicate a Paulson design, at least pick one of the better ones and not their in-house stuff (the newly offered Colombani chips are clearly, um, inspired by Paulson Noir).
- None of the inlay designs are particularly good, hotstamp is nice but basically the same as Grand Cardroom, be more original
- Offering the same design on different molds seems confusing
- Rounders chips will sell because of the movie and having them is a jackpot, maybe the Eagle chips sell because of 'murica..?
- You lack the option of solid chips with inlays
Since (at least some of) these stock sets are selling, there is clearly a market for them. However, I would put more emphasis on great inlay design. I believe it to be just as important as the color/insert choices if not more so (Paulson's in-house designs ignored this aspect, be better than them). I would keep offering sets in different price ranges (solids, low level spotted, high level spotted) as people will be looking for different things / have different amounts of money to spend. Finally, below is an example of how a decent inlay adds to the chip (my first set from ASM). By no means a great design, but gives the chips a very different look compared to black elements on a white background. Many sets have passed through my doors over the years, but these remain a favorite at my table.
Edit: And if you are going to replicate a Paulson design, at least pick one of the better ones and not their in-house stuff (the newly offered Colombani chips are clearly, um, inspired by Paulson Noir).
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Ben
Full House
At the point when I really fell down the rabbit hole of this "hobby" around 2012, on any day of the week you had your choice of 2-3 sets of MINT casino Paulsons from Chiproom, for a buck or less per chip (sometimes MUCH less,) plus plenty of older sets in the classifieds at similar prices that people were unloading to buy the newer sets. Mint, chipper-designed BCC sets traded regularly for even less. If you were willing to accept casino-used chips, you could get them at prices at or below china clay prices (those haven't changed much over the years.) Vendors sold all the Paulson home lines for between $1.29-$1.49 per chip, and sold them they did. I thought anyone who was buying them was certifiably nuts.
Now that your average, run-of-the-mill mint casino Paulson has basically hit the $2 per mark, the old home sets (WTH&C etc) are still commanding a 50% premium, and I still think it's nuts. I don't really understand it, but yet, there it is. I guess it's a testament to the power of people's laziness ("I want to buy a super-nice, top-end chipset for myself/husband/dad but I don't want to spend any time on it, just show it to me and ship it to me.")
Get a half-decent looking 500-chip set up on Amazon for $799, and they'll sell, don't worry. My guess is any higher and you'll start to see significant decline in sales, but I could be wrong. But even at $999, you'll still sell a few. (y) :thumbsup:
Now that your average, run-of-the-mill mint casino Paulson has basically hit the $2 per mark, the old home sets (WTH&C etc) are still commanding a 50% premium, and I still think it's nuts. I don't really understand it, but yet, there it is. I guess it's a testament to the power of people's laziness ("I want to buy a super-nice, top-end chipset for myself/husband/dad but I don't want to spend any time on it, just show it to me and ship it to me.")
Get a half-decent looking 500-chip set up on Amazon for $799, and they'll sell, don't worry. My guess is any higher and you'll start to see significant decline in sales, but I could be wrong. But even at $999, you'll still sell a few. (y) :thumbsup:
OP
OP
Amazon (or eBay for that matter) give great exposure, but are not so economical when your profit margin is small. When you factor in the amazon store fee, their commission, and the low limit they set on what can be charged for shipping, you lose approx. 20% for self fulfilment or 50!!!% for amazon fulfilment.
OP
OP
CPC has a decent variety of stock sets available and have sold about 15,000 of them, so I'm sure @David Spragg knows what some people are willing to pay and also which sets are popular. Without knowing that though, here are my thoughs on the current offerings:
- None of the inlay designs are particularly good, hotstamp is nice but basically the same as Grand Cardroom, be more original
- Offering the same design on different molds seems confusing
- Rounders chips will sell because of the movie and having them is a jackpot, maybe the Eagle chips sell because of 'murica..?
- You lack the option of solid chips with inlays
Since (at least some of) these stock sets are selling, there is clearly a market for them. However, I would put more emphasis on great inlay design. I believe it to be just as important as the color/insert choices if not more so (Paulson's in-house designs ignored this aspect, be better than them). I would keep offering sets in different price ranges (solids, low level spotted, high level spotted) as people will be looking for different things / have different amounts of money to spend. Finally, below is an example of how a decent inlay adds to the chip (my first set from ASM). By no means a great design, but gives the chips a very different look compared to black elements on a white background. Many sets have passed through my doors over the years, but these remain a favorite at my table.
Edit: And if you are going to replicate a Paulson design, at least pick one of the better ones and not their in-house stuff (the newly offered Colombani chips are clearly, um, inspired by Paulson Noir).
Paulson strictly limited the colors and patterns that could be available to ensure combinations previously registered to casinos (or reserved for future use) were not replicated.
OP
OP
I didn't just mean numbers wise. Being a part of the group of wholesalers who supported Michael in setting it all up back then I'm aware of the quantities. For those 5 lines it was around 1,650,000 units.
Aside from the fact the structure of the deal with Paulson effectively meant an almost worldwide network of committed re-sellers had to be in place already, 3/4 of the Paulson 'wholesale' took place in the first 2 years pre the recession. Retail sales took big hit because Paulson made price increases in 2006 which the re-sellers couldn't justify and so profit margins were slashed.
Compared to 2006 when they were maybe a dozen Chinese suppliers of various types of chip there are now 50,000. When those first Chinese chips were bought I (and JimB was one of the first on the scene then) retail customers didn't know how cheaply they had been obtained and willingly paid 20c, 30c, 40c, 50c a chip. Margins were 000's% and there were few sellers. Buyers couldn't go on eBay and amazon and see 20,000 different choices at 5c a chip. So the choice was maybe 50c for plastic rubbish vs $1.05 for real clay CdI. A lot of people were happy to pay the $1.05.
Now the comparison is between 5c and $1.50 - $2.00. I don't think the proportion of buyers changes much whether it is $1.50 or $2 because the difference from 5c is so much.
Add to that the fact that many people now already have what they want and the target audience is much much lower than it was when Paulsons were available. That's why I think it's not a fair comparison. Also, regardless of price, Paulson had the capacity to produce 30,000 chips a day and can well afford to front the production costs had they desired to.
If I knew the solution I wouldn't be asking questions
As has been said elsewhere this forum is probably 0.01% of the target audience. Probably wasn't much more than that for the Paulsons either. So for us, the price point/manufacturing cost/design all have to be factored in together.
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@David Spragg
I think it's a good idea & I'm very glad to see an expansion to have real clay, real inlay Poker Chips , available quickly, as an option for consumers that need a 200-1200 chip set "this week" for themselves or a gift, & just as with the Paulson consumer sets, there's no way to please everybody on design & compromises for price and production have to be made...
** One thing I noticed you may want to address,... on the Main CPC webpage, on the left side, a customer will see a list of options to select:
REAL CLAY POKER CHIPS
CERAMIC (DYE SUB) CHIPS
CERAMIC PLAQUES
STORAGE
SAMPLES
ect ........
If I were a "new" customer, & wanted / ready to buy some " Real Clay Poker Chips ", I would obviously click that first link , vs anything else on the page.
That takes you to a page with everything about CPC clay chips, Except for any way to see there is a selection of the Real clay stock chips!
Click on Mold designs, nope... on "featured chips " .. nope... , even "price List", has no information about buying the stock chips ...
I do realize that they are elsewhere on the site, but they should also have a clear link in the Real Clay Chips section, & possibly even an "In Stock Real Clay Chips" on the left links as well ...
I think it's a good idea & I'm very glad to see an expansion to have real clay, real inlay Poker Chips , available quickly, as an option for consumers that need a 200-1200 chip set "this week" for themselves or a gift, & just as with the Paulson consumer sets, there's no way to please everybody on design & compromises for price and production have to be made...
** One thing I noticed you may want to address,... on the Main CPC webpage, on the left side, a customer will see a list of options to select:
REAL CLAY POKER CHIPS
CERAMIC (DYE SUB) CHIPS
CERAMIC PLAQUES
STORAGE
SAMPLES
ect ........
If I were a "new" customer, & wanted / ready to buy some " Real Clay Poker Chips ", I would obviously click that first link , vs anything else on the page.
That takes you to a page with everything about CPC clay chips, Except for any way to see there is a selection of the Real clay stock chips!
Click on Mold designs, nope... on "featured chips " .. nope... , even "price List", has no information about buying the stock chips ...
I do realize that they are elsewhere on the site, but they should also have a clear link in the Real Clay Chips section, & possibly even an "In Stock Real Clay Chips" on the left links as well ...
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Okay. Let's think this through guys. The main issue isn't necessarily the price as much as it's the demand for a super high quality poker chip. That demand is concentrated in this community mostly from what I've seen.
What we need to do is manufacture demand by either:
1. Making poker as popular as it was in 2004.
2. Promoting the chips more?
3. Find other fun uses for poker chips and make that widely popular !! (Board games??)
It absolutely kills me that we are the majority of such a small minority. I wish chips were everywhere and people didn't think we were crazy for spending $2 a chip.
I'll go back to smoking this here pipe that makes me dream.
What we need to do is manufacture demand by either:
1. Making poker as popular as it was in 2004.
2. Promoting the chips more?
3. Find other fun uses for poker chips and make that widely popular !! (Board games??)
It absolutely kills me that we are the majority of such a small minority. I wish chips were everywhere and people didn't think we were crazy for spending $2 a chip.
I'll go back to smoking this here pipe that makes me dream.
OP
OP
"I do realize that they are elsewhere on the site, but they should also have a clear link in the Real Clay Chips section, & possibly even an "In Stock Real Clay Chips" on the left links as well"
Agreed. I will work on that.
Regarding the first paragraph, one of the difficulties is that the Atlantics for example are all different levels. So if anyone orders other than the standard breakdown the price has to change. If anything new was all L1 or all L2 then they could be priced by the 100 and you pick whatever combination you want.
barfalloverewe
Sitting Out
I strongly agree that the current CPC website is confusing for someone like me who was extremely clueless just a couple months ago and now am just mostly clueless.
The link on the left side "Real Clay Poker Chips" should be relabeled "Design Custom Real Clay Poker Chips" and have a separate link "In Stock Real Clay Poker Chips." The info on ordering custom chips gets overwhelming quickly... a necessary evil I supposed for the degree of customization you provide.
I'm also surprised you don't feature the Rounder chips on your homepage anywhere; perhaps a personal bias since I think those are the sharpest chips.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Key West sets during this discussion. Isn't that basically the same idea you're looking to develop here (heck, he's even using CPC chips)? A higher-end, consumer-friendly, in-stock poker chip set? I have no idea what type of sales volume Key West has been able to generate but I think he's done a great job of trying to make his offering as 'for the masses' as possible (well designed web site, pre-packaging into gift sets, nice simple explanation of breakdowns, etc).
Edit: Also worth noting that two of the three cash set offerings at Key West use fracs.
Edit: Also worth noting that two of the three cash set offerings at Key West use fracs.
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OP
OP
His sales are lower than any of our existing stock sets.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
I greatly prefer the Chesterfields to the KGB... But I think "Rounders" gets used when people really mean the KGB chips.
OP
OP
I've been thinking about the Chesterfields for a while.
We will NOT re-make them on the no-mold though. Not sure what they will look like on something else.
Someone link the Chesterfield chips
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
Why not on the no mold? Just to make sure the originals are not confused with remakes? Or is there a problem with the no mold?
OP
OP
Just to make sure they are not confused. In the movie prop collectors market the originals are still worth $100-$200 a set.
Same reason that even if the roman mold was still around we would never have made Rounders on them.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
I've seen them sell for $75 per chip! Very cool of you to maintain the collector's market for those chips, tho.
I bought TRK's, they shut down.
I got a custom set of BCC's, they close their doors.
I got ASM customs on the Roman mold and the mold goes out of production.
You may have gotten off light.
barfalloverewe
Sitting Out
Like I said I'm pretty clueless. But this is why I referred to them as the Rounder chips; from CPC website.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
Right, Those are the chips used in Teddy KGB's club. Both the KGB chips and the Chesterfields were used in the movie Rounders, so its not wrong to refer to them as Rounders. But generally, I think when people say 'Rounders chips,' more often than not, they are referring to KGB's and not both KGBs and Chesterfields.
You might try throwing a little inlay design contest to the members here. I saw the thread containing the results of contest that Apache ran for the Majestics and there were some awesome amateur (and non-amateur) designs developed for just the cost of a set of chips.
If that's the case FDL would be the logical choice IMO
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