Is this real ? GEMCO ordered to pay in Borgata-Phil Ivey case

Discussion in 'Poker News' started by Squibyboom, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. Mar 29, 2018 at 8:34 PM
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    Squibyboom

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  2. Mar 29, 2018 at 8:52 PM
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    Shaggy

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    In my mind, the card manufacturer is more at fault than Phil Ivey. Borgata owes Ivey... then Borgata is free to sue Gemaco.
     
  3. Mar 29, 2018 at 9:00 PM
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    Squibyboom

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    Right? Like I get it, he and from what I understand the dealer knew about the card defect and exploited it. So ya they are cheats. But if GEMCO is responsible for failure of products 27$ is a joke
     
  4. Mar 29, 2018 at 9:07 PM
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    Jambine

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    Yeah, the dealer and the floor, and the pencil and certainly a lot more than that.
    How many people are in on it when a player asks if its OK to cheat, and the casino agrees?
    Borgata is 100% responsible. Mostly for being 100% stupid
     
  5. Mar 29, 2018 at 9:14 PM
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    abby99

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    Although I can't find it now, I recall reading that the sales contract specified that Gemaco's liability in the case of defective products is to replace or refund those items.

    Greed and stupidity: a dangerous combination.
     
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  6. Mar 29, 2018 at 9:17 PM
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    Gameface

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    Humm, a card company having to replace decks that are defective in a way that could enable and encourage cheating?

    @Modiano, you getting this?
     
  7. Mar 29, 2018 at 9:39 PM
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    Squibyboom

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    That's a point I think of as well. Also over the whole fiasco surely GEMCO provided more than just 27$ worth of cards. It's nice that they are ordered to pay a sum I agree. I feel these card giants just get away with their mistakes with a slap on the wrists.
     
  8. Mar 29, 2018 at 9:48 PM
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    abby99

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    I stopped buying cards with a full bleed back at least ten years ago. I wonder what cards Borgata is using now.
     
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  9. Mar 30, 2018 at 12:56 AM
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    Shaggy

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    Sadface that everyone seems to feel that Phil cheated. He exploited a flaw in a game as provided by the casino. The dealer was not in on it. He requested that these specific cards would be used and requested that the dealer discard a certain way. The house should protect their game better. The casino could say “no.” They are happy to take millions from patrons when they have the edge, but when they give the edge to a player, they cry foul and want their money back... Eff that.

    We are not talking poker here... where all players at the table are customers with the expectation of a fair game. It’s a pit game with an inherent house edge... they cater to whales and their superstitions... this time THEIR greed bit them in the ass.
     
  10. Mar 30, 2018 at 1:31 AM
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    upNdown

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    I’m with you 100% @Shaggy - it seems quite the bullshit that the casino is allowed to agree to Phil’s terms, and then plea switcheroo when they lose. But from a legal perspective, I think the ruling was sound. Based on existing laws, as I understand it, the casino isn’t allowed to agree to let Phil cheat. So, as applied, the law is dumb.
    The laws are dumb - shocker.
     
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  11. Mar 30, 2018 at 2:51 AM
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    BGinGA

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    The real question is this: would the casino have returned Phil's money had he lost, using those same 'bogus' cards and dealer procedures?

    I doubt it, and doubt that Phil could have sucessfully sued to get it back, either. If the game was actually invalid, then any results should be nullified regardless of who wins..... but we all know that wouldn't be the case irl.
     
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  12. Mar 30, 2018 at 9:34 AM
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    Shaggy

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    So then you’re not with me 100%... maybe 65%.
     
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  13. Mar 30, 2018 at 12:51 PM
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    Jambine

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    ^That^
     
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  14. Mar 30, 2018 at 1:29 PM
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    upNdown

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    Ha. No. 100%.
    I don't think it could be cheating if the house agrees to it. That was a poor choice of words on my part.
     
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  15. Mar 30, 2018 at 8:45 PM
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    Mental Nomad

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    First thing the dealer does when setting up the table is inspect the cards. So the house inspects the cards, and if the house approves them for play, they get used. If the house inspects the cards and they are defective, they return them and use other cards.

    So, here, we've established that the cards were imperfect. Gemaco owes them for the bad cards. But that's where it ends, because it was the house that approved them for play.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
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  16. Apr 5, 2018 at 8:25 AM
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    Frogzilla

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    All cards are technically imperfect, right? An extreme example: if one had a microscope they could probably notice some inconsistencies between individual cards of any deck.

    The fact that Iveys strategy required a dealer to manipulate the cards in an unusual way, so that he can examine them, makes me think Gemaco isn’t too much at fault. It implies that the cards were good enough to be used in standard play
     
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