Is this a string bet?

LotsOfChips

Straight
Joined
Jul 10, 2019
Messages
917
Reaction score
984
Location
Chilliwack BC
A player I occasionally play with at a home game MTT will frequently bet by separating out a pile of chips into their fist, put their fist over the betting surface, wait a moment, and then drop either a single chip to call, or some or all of the chips to raise.

Seems like it could be viewed as a string bet, but the guy is a long time regular at this game, and I'm the noob, so I don't want to call the guy out without knowing for sure what is correct or incorrect.

What do you think?
 

Kain8

Flush
Joined
Sep 16, 2016
Messages
1,149
Reaction score
1,953
Location
Regina, Canada
The betting line goes from the table to the ceiling, if he's extending his arm over the line with a pile of chips in his hand, ALL OF THOSE CHIPS are the bet/raise. This rule is to prevent people from doing exactly this which holds up the game and eliminates this particular angle.
 

CdnBeerLover

Full House
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
4,034
Reaction score
2,097
Location
Ottawa, ON Canada
The betting line goes from the table to the ceiling, if he's extending his arm over the line with a pile of chips in his hand, ALL OF THOSE CHIPS are the bet/raise. This rule is to prevent people from doing exactly this which holds up the game and eliminates this particular angle.

This is how we rule this as well.
 

ekricket

Full House
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
3,424
Reaction score
5,066
Location
Angel Fire NM
When everyone is seated Before the next game, politely ask the host if they have a betting line. Just say most casinos you are in have one, and take it from there. If he says no, leave it and adapt. If he says yes, clarify it and make sure the table sees it. Then ask politely next time he does it if the betting line rule is enforced.
 

clapton77

Pair
Joined
May 17, 2018
Messages
166
Reaction score
317
Location
Des Moines, Iowa
I've played in rooms where holding chips in your hand over the betting line is not considered a bet. I think this is moronic, but, it is the rule in certain rooms nonetheless. Personally, I would ask the host to clarify the rule prior to the next tournament and make sure everyone was aware of it.
 

Rhodeman77

4 of a Kind
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
6,322
Reaction score
13,415
Location
Cleveland
Definitely an angle that many people do. He should announcing his action verbally first if doing that. If a player tries that at my game I warn them right away that they need to verbalize their action or any chips going forward will be going in the pot.

The local casino is horrible about enforcing the bet line.
 

DrStrange

Full House
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
4,541
Reaction score
7,291
Location
Outlet Mall in San Marcos
I don't believe string bets are a big deal, worthy of note or punishment. There are rare exceptions but mostly the people getting punished for a string bet are the weaker players at the table and the beneficiaries are the stronger players.

I will correct "stringish" betting behavior but almost never enforce a request for sanctions. Let the player bet what they want. If the player is having a bit too much fun at the expense of the table, say something. Save the "hammer" for the once or twice a year miscreant, usually one of the best players who can actually use the read from a string bet and who thinks fast enough to deploy the strategy.

DrStrange
 

timinater

Flush
Site Vendor
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
2,275
Location
SESKATCHWAN
Some places allow you to cut out chips over the line in any amount up to what you brought across. That's a dumb rule though.

I probably wouldn't ask us though - I'd ask a couple members of the game or the host. Might be a long standing house rule or something (they don't know better, etc.) and you might have better luck getting it changed/enforced if you approach it in a less confrontational way.
 

raynmanas

Straight
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
987
Reaction score
1,436
Location
Massachusetts
looks like i might be in the minority here. but it is very common in my game to pick up a barrel(ish) of chips, move that barrel over the (imaginary on my table) bet line, cut out your bet off the bottom of that barrel, then move the remainder back your stack. and honestly, if someone actually tried to call that a string bet, i probably wouldn't be interested in playing a casual game with you or invite you back. in a home game, intent is what matters (within reason). if, in OP's example, the player is doing it specifically to try to gain information, i might have a problem with it. but my example is common even in casino games, and i've personally never seen it called.
 

AWenger

Flush
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
1,916
Reaction score
2,349
Location
Washington DC
This is more like a 'reverse string bet', but unfortunately (in my opinion), this is not a string bet or 'reverse string bet' in games and casinos that I have seen or played in.

I even recall Brad Booth doing something like this on one of the earlier seasons of High Stakes Poker, he stacks up about 15 chips or so (the total of which would have been a raise) in his hand, then moves the stack of chips forward (while the chips were still in his hand), but then just lets the bottom few chips stay on the felt and CALLS the bet, pulling back the stack of chips in his hand that would have been a raise. It was a call, and no one else made any issue with it.

Most casinos and places allow players to 'cut out' a bet on the felt and pull chips back that are still 'in control' by the player's hand, and that seems to be the key point. Like a player has a stack of 20 $5 chips (for a total of $100) in his hand, and in front of his cards or in front of the betting line, the players 'cuts out' 3 stacks of 4 chips on the table, for a bet of $60 (3 stacks of $20 each), and pulls the remaining $40 chips in his hand back. This has been a bet of $60, and not a bet of $100 in everywhere I've played that I can think of.

If a player completely removed his hand from controlling the chips and let the full stack of $100 chips hit the felt without his hand around them, then this would be a $100 bet. But if the player still has his hands controlling the chips, he's allowed to cut out a smaller bet from that larger stack of chips in his hand.

I don't necessarily agree with this or like it, but this has been the rule at casinos and places I've played at.
 

Kain8

Flush
Joined
Sep 16, 2016
Messages
1,149
Reaction score
1,953
Location
Regina, Canada
intent is what matters (within reason).

This is the crux of it, but it's why the rule has been made, so that there's no ambiguity at all. You can choose to enforce the rule, or not. That's the job of the host to have what rules they want to enforce. But sooner or later, ignoring a generally accepted rule altogether because of "oh, we can't be too serious because of x reason", it's going to come to a head and you'll have a situation on your hands that could easily have been avoided.
 

Frogzilla

Full House
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
2,507
Reaction score
3,475
Location
Frisco, TX
The rule varies by place so some casinos this is fine, some it’s not. If the player is deliberate about the movements and looking for reactions during his bet, I’d complain. If its just his style and how he likes to bet (looking at his hands/chips during the maneuver) it’s no big deal
 

BukNaked36

Two Pair
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
499
Reaction score
441
Location
Madison WI
Potowatomi in Milwaukee used to strictly enforce the betting line and it led to a lot of complaints from players.

Most places I've seen, including Vegas casinos, allow players to cut out chips over the line. In fact, I think Potowatomi is the only place that I've seen a dealer enforce the betting "area" above the felt.

Have you guys seen casino dealers force the bet to be put in if the chips don't touch the felt?

Most players act in a direct manner and it's not an issue. Like a lot of rules, it just comes down to a few players being pricks about it.
 

LotsOfChips

Straight
Joined
Jul 10, 2019
Messages
917
Reaction score
984
Location
Chilliwack BC
l in a home game, intent is what matters (within reason).
Most casinos and places allow players to 'cut out' a bet on the felt and pull chips back that are still 'in control' by the player's hand, and that seems to be the key point. Like a player has a stack of 20 $5 chips (for a total of $100) in his hand, and in front of his cards or in front of the betting line, the players 'cuts out' 3 stacks of 4 chips on the table, for a bet of $60 (3 stacks of $20 each), and pulls the remaining $40 chips in his hand back. This has been a bet of $60, and not a bet of $100 in everywhere I've played that I can think of.

If a player completely removed his hand from controlling the chips and let the full stack of $100 chips hit the felt without his hand around them, then this would be a $100 bet. But if the player still has his hands controlling the chips, he's allowed to cut out a smaller bet from that larger stack of chips in his hand.
Ok, sure, but what happens if say a stray chip inadvertently falls to the felt? Accident and allow the player to retrieve it? Mandatory raise?
 

raynmanas

Straight
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
987
Reaction score
1,436
Location
Massachusetts
This is the crux of it, but it's why the rule has been made, so that there's no ambiguity at all. You can choose to enforce the rule, or not.

could you possibly provide an example of a written source for this rule? this is not something i've ever thought to look up, so i've never seen something in writing.
 

raynmanas

Straight
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
987
Reaction score
1,436
Location
Massachusetts
Ok, sure, but what happens if say a stray chip inadvertently falls to the felt? Accident and allow the player to retrieve it? Mandatory raise?

floor decides. in my game, like i said, intent is what matters. in a casino, someone might decide to be a prick about it and the floor may have to enforce the raise, but an extra chip accidentally hitting the felt over the bet line is definitely technically a raise. i guess that is an inherent risk in the subject betting technique.
 

Eloe2000

Full House
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2019
Messages
3,032
Reaction score
5,755
Location
Casa Mango, FL
It's a home game. What do you believe their intention to be? This guy could have been doing this for twenty years at the same home just out of habit without anyone correcting him over the years. I would not want to call him out publicly on that if so because it would not be taken kindly. I would casually ask another player/host about it before making a stink about it. But yeah, I would correct that behavior at my game and eventually call it a bet/raise.
 

trigs

Straight
Joined
Sep 29, 2017
Messages
773
Reaction score
829
Location
Canada
Ok, sure, but what happens if say a stray chip inadvertently falls to the felt? Accident and allow the player to retrieve it? Mandatory raise?
I've obviously seen this happen in a home game (accidental extra chip dropped in with call or knocked into the pot) and every time they've been allowed to take it back. Usually it's followed by an immediate "oops" or "sorry, too many" and everyone knows there was no intended angle.
 

horseshoez

Flush
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
2,201
Reaction score
3,506
Location
USA
Seems to me like he either,

1) has a bad habit and doesn't even notice that he's walking the line between a standard bet and a string bet.

2) Doing the motion in an effort to get a reaction from another play between the time he grabs all of them and drops a specific amount.

Either way, this all boils down to how the game is managed. Casino actions from what I've seen varies from one to another regardless of written rule. I've seen some enforce that player to put all those chips in his hand down whenever he crosses the line and others who have only held them to whichever chips they've dropped on the playing surface. Home games? Gotta ask yourself, are other players including yourself bothered by this? If so, has to be relayed to that player that the next time his hand crosses visible/non-visible betting line, they're in. Period.
 

Ronoh

Full House
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Messages
4,509
Reaction score
5,957
Location
Ohio
I know I do this from time-to-time, someone makes it $35 I’ll grab a random amount of redbirds & cut out 3x3 and cap it for a call and bring the rest back.

Pretty sure I’ve done this plenty of times in home games, casinos and chipper meetups. Never did it as an angle, never had a dealer or player at the table comment in any way that I can recall. And honestly I never really thought about how it may be perceived until reading this thread.

In my case there’s no hesitation, it’s very quick and I feel like I probably say “call” as I’m doing it most of the time but I could be wrong. As I said I’ve never really thought about it or heard any complaints verbalized.
 

LotsOfChips

Straight
Joined
Jul 10, 2019
Messages
917
Reaction score
984
Location
Chilliwack BC
Seems to me like he either,
1) has a bad habit and doesn't even notice that he's walking the line between a standard bet and a string bet.
2) Doing the motion in an effort to get a reaction from another play between the time he grabs all of them and drops a specific amount.

Gotta ask yourself, are other players including yourself bothered by this?
I think that it's #1, but he does it slowly enough and deliberately enough that it might be #2.

Nobody else seems to notice, and I've seen other players in other venues do the same (but usually much quicker and much less deliberately).

Seems from the comments above that it may be fairly common in many casinos, so I think a casual conversation with the host is the way to go, and if he's not worried about it, then I'll let it drop.

Or maybe next time I'm in a hand with him, I'll grab my entire stack, hold it above the table, look him in the eye, wait 10 or 15 seconds, and then drop a single chip.
 

horseshoez

Flush
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
2,201
Reaction score
3,506
Location
USA
Or maybe next time I'm in a hand with him, I'll grab my entire stack, hold it above the table, look him in the eye, wait 10 or 15 seconds, and then drop a single chip.

We have a player that does that but the game is so casual and we know he's doing it just to mess with us that we take it very lightly and just laugh it off.

Answer to the original question lies within how casual or not the game is.
 
Top Bottom