Is it allowed....

Bloody Marvelous

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Hand ranking charts: sure. If you need it because you're a novice player, and you don't know what beats what, I don't see any problem with it.

The other charts would be kinda stupid to have at the table. You'd be revealing your hand when you're looking at them. If you're holding a clinic I can see how they would be useful, but in a live game...
 

spikeithard

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Well, lets back up. To be honest its never came up where I have had to not allow it.
But if I if someone needs to use a cheat sheet for hand rankings they should not be in my game. Not fair to others playing having to be held up all the time by said player
 

catalyzeme

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Well, lets back up. To be honest its never came up where I have had to not allow it.
But if I if someone needs to use a cheat sheet for hand rankings they should not be in my game. Not fair to others playing having to be held up all the time by said player
Could be interesting strategy at a casino. How tilting would it be to lose a hand to someone reading a hand ranking chart?
 

Shaggy

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Reminds me of the old poker movie "Cincinnati Kid" with Steve McQueen. One of the players at the table "played by the numbers." He had a pencil and paper at the table doing calculations. Not much different than push/fold charts or drawing odds charts. Admittedly when I started playing online, I had these charts available... but at the table is another thing.

I think most people playing live poker have an expectation that the only tool one is bringing is their brain, so these tools are off limits. Someone having a hand rank chart is different though. If they truly need the chart, they are dead money in most games. I wouldn't want that player in my game unless they were truly fine with losing their buy-in... because they would.
 

bigfruits

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a noob with a poker hand rank chart? no problem
if one guy brings any other type of chart, can i bring a tablet with poker calculation software?
 

manamongkids

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a noob with a poker hand rank chart? no problem
if one guy brings any other type of chart, can i bring a tablet with poker calculation software?
who's to say people dont already do this?

I dont actively look at other peoples phones or tablets when they are playing
 

pltrgyst

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Bring all the charts you want -- if you can take all the derision and other abuse you're bound to get.

And bring several buy-ins, 'cuz you're going to need them. :cool:

But if using them slows the game down, they (or you) are out.
 

bigfruits

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who's to say people dont already do this?

I dont actively look at other peoples phones or tablets when they are playing

if you cant tell if someone is plugging away at their cell phone during a game you need to look around more. :)

what im trying to say is a chart with percentages is the same as having a program calculate for you. i could see the other players not liking that. i might try to beat the robot by reading his bets.
 

chipjoker

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I sometimes provide a Hand ranking chart, I do this only for those who ask me if they can come to my game and after I tell them of the level of players and that they should know that they will most likely loose there money. None of my regulars have an issue with this, they are willing to take anyone's money (LOL).... they might even help the player after a hand to learn a little about strategy, I have a good group.
 

courage

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i know one guy (ahem, @bergs) who could report on this with first hand experience.

The aftermath.

bergsheet.jpg
 

manamongkids

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if you cant tell if someone is plugging away at their cell phone during a game you need to look around more. :)

what im trying to say is a chart with percentages is the same as having a program calculate for you. i could see the other players not liking that. i might try to beat the robot by reading his bets.
if someone is sitting on the opposite side of a 10 person table in a casino or even a home game and surfing the web or watching a tv show, i dont think i could tell if they were playing with an odds app or push/shove chart. depending on conspicuous they look of course
 

BGinGA

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this is a rule for your home games?


RROP identifies using a cell phone at the table as improper action. The TDA rules contain the following:
4: Electronic Devices and Communication
Players may not talk on a phone while at the poker table. House rules apply to other forms of electronic devices and electronic communication


Our tournament rules comply with both RROP v11 and the TDA rules. This is the excerpt from our tournament rules:
1.3 IMPROPER ACTIONS
The following actions are improper, and grounds for warning, suspending, or banning a violator:
1.3.11 Using a cell phone, text-messaging device, or other communication device at the table. Players should step away from the table to use cell phones or other communication devices.
 

jbutler

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RROP identifies using a cell phone at the table as improper action. The TDA rules contain the following:

Our tournament rules comply with both RROP v11 and the TDA rules. This is the excerpt from our tournament rules:

hopefully these rules don't apply to cash games at your place. they tried to do this in the cash games at borgata and there was a near revolt. it was implemented on a monday morning and was reversed by thursday night.

even in tournaments - which are already nightmares of tyrannical control by hosts/TDAs/floor managers - i can't conceive of a justification for implementing those rules other than to avoid delay, in which case you should also ban watching tv and talking to other players about matters other than the ongoing hand. that sounds like a very, very fun game.
 

bigfruits

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there is a difference between picking up the phone to tell your wife that you left 20 mins ago and constantly entering hand/pot size info into a calculator.

ive never had any problems at my games but if someone was going to have a conversation on the phone for longer than 30 secs or so, i'd expect them to step away. if i had to make a house rule i would.
 

Bloody Marvelous

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If you're in a hand you better put your phone down. I don't care if it's a tournament or a cash game. If I see players using their phones while they're in a hand, I wanna know what they're doing.

Of course it's also bad etiquette, but the main reason is to prevent collusion. They could be telling each other what they're holding or what they've folded (and so trying to gain an advantage over a third player), or they may be discussing hand strategy. Also it's friggin' annoying if you're in a hand, and someone next to you is yapping on the phone, or he's too busy playing Candy Crush to pay attention to the game being played live on the table he's sitting at.

In my games it's a firm rule: You wanna use your phone, stand up, take a few steps, and do whatever you wanna do.
 

BGinGA

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even in tournaments - which are already nightmares of tyrannical control by hosts/TDAs/floor managers - i can't conceive of a justification for implementing those rules other than to avoid delay, in which case you should also ban watching tv and talking to other players about matters other than the ongoing hand. that sounds like a very, very fun game.

Srsly? There are lots of ways to cheat at the poker table with electronic devices, and Bloody only covered a few of them above.

And if I find a player getting assistance with his play from his TV viewing, I'll consider it an electronic device too. :)
 

jbutler

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Srsly? There are lots of ways to cheat at the poker table with electronic devices, and Bloody only covered a few of them above.

And if I find a player getting assistance with his play from his TV viewing, I'll consider it an electronic device too. :)

i understand not permitting players to use their device while in a hand. requiring that they step away from the table to use it even when not in a hand serves no legitimate purpose.
 

bmichaelhorn

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My home game is low stakes and newbie friendly. I've provided new players with hand ranking sheets. I think it's only fair that they know the basic rules as well as I do if I'm going to be trying to take their money.
 

Pinball

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In my home game I would allow to use you personal notes from your pocketbook but no electronical devices.

Are personal notes allowed at the WSOP or WPT?
 

bigfruits

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My home game is low stakes and newbie friendly. I've provided new players with hand ranking sheets. I think it's only fair that they know the basic rules as well as I do if I'm going to be trying to take their money.

i hate playing newbies. you never know what they are doing. :)

i wonder if anyone would actually not allow beginners to use rank charts. seems kinda dickish and/or greedy. if its because it slows the game down, you shouldnt have invited beginners in the first place. nothing beats getting someone into the game or any other hobby. especially when it beefs up that bankroll ;)
 

bmichaelhorn

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Well, lets back up. To be honest its never came up where I have had to not allow it.
But if I if someone needs to use a cheat sheet for hand rankings they should not be in my game. Not fair to others playing having to be held up all the time by said player
i hate playing newbies. you never know what they are doing. :)

i wonder if anyone would actually not allow beginners to use rank charts. seems kinda dickish and/or greedy. if its because it slows the game down, you shouldnt have invited beginners in the first place. nothing beats getting someone into the game or any other hobby. especially when it beefs up that bankroll ;)

Spikeithard is apparently a hardass:) If it's a serious game I get that. Mine isn't so much really.
 

spikeithard

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I overstepped my words a bit.. I would allow it but I dont think it would ever come up.. I just would feel bad for anyone needing a cheat sheet in my game. I have a fairly tough game anyways.
 
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