Interesting SOHE Hand From Over The Weekend (1 Viewer)

JMC9389

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This was an interesting one from this weekend. We're playing four handed 0.05/0.10 dealer's choice cash games this past Saturday. Pot limit SOHE gets called. This particular hand, I'm in the small blind and I look at :as::ts::6h::3d::2s::2c:.

Cutoff limps for 0.10, button pots it to 0.25, hero in SB calls, BB calls, and limper in the cutoff calls.

First, how would you split this hand? I'll post the flop once I get some opinions!
 
I normally put any PP in hold’em, but A10ss can make a strong hold’em hand and the 22 has more connection with the 63 for straight possibilities.

It is easy to have a bigger set and get crushed in hold’em. Also since most people do put PP in hold’em they rarely worry about flushes or straights beating them in hold’em.

I’d split it:
A10ss—- hold’em
2236– Omaha
 
I have never played this game...but I look forward to playing this week!

I was thinking 22 HE to start with, but I like the ATs better. Here's to hoping for a low spades flop.
 
If you hit your low straight with some of these splits that put 6322 together, someone has probably hit a higher one. Overall this is a money burning hand.
 
I think just about both sides of the coin have been discussed at this point, so for better or worse, this is what happened next....

Before I say anything else, with a full ring of 6 or 7 players in the game, this is a hand that I definitely fold to a pot raise that limps/folds around to the button. However, given the game was short handed, and I had a nut flush draw in my hand of some kind, I decided to take a stab at it. It was 15 cents to see some cards, after all :LOL: :laugh:

That said, we're all SOHE novices and this is actually the first time we played it as a group together. We've played PLO at dealer's choice nights before, so the guys know how to play that. What I noticed in the couple of hands preceding this one was that the other players would load up on their PLO hands and put their trash in their hold em hand. This will be important later.

Still, it took me at least a full minute. What you guys so far argued for is exactly what I considered. Would it be more profitable to go for the nut flush on the hold 'em or PLO board, and what gives me a better chance to scoop? In the end, I decided to cap my hands with :as::ts::6h::3d: as the PLO hand, and :2s::2c: as the hold em hand, hoping for low spades and a two to come out on the flop. If put the deuces and 3 and 6 as the PLO hand, I'm figuring the most likely hand I can have would be a straight, which on most drawing boards would be second or third best in the end. Pot is $1 at this point.

Anyway, I ended up getting half of what I asked for. The flop came :jh::4c::2d:. The post flop was nothing exciting. Hero bet pot ($1) to try to take it down early with bottom set and a gutshot on the PLO board. BB flat calls, cutoff folds, and SB flat calls. Pot is now $4. Three to the turn, and the :jd: comes out, giving hero a boat on the NLHE hand.

Hero?
 
I put 22 in the HE hand. Bottom set at least has some chance of picking up half the pot.

I have a hard time seeing 2236 doing anything for you in PLO. PCF needs to come up with a SOHE hand probabilities calculator.

As played, you're out of position with a basically dead PLO hand and a HE hand that's good at showdown maybe 3/4 of the time. Anybody with a J is going to be tough to push out. So that looks like a check and try to get to showdown cheap.
 
If you have to set something in the BB, my recommendation is AT and 6322. If you put the 2s in HE, you are setting yourself up for a losing underset. AT is a nut flush/Broadway draw, with a chance to bomb the pot if you get lucky. Flopping a set is 2s is simply too weak to continue in HE, especially with newer players loading HE with other pairs.
 
This is trash, yo. If insisting on playing, I'd theatrically shuffle all six cards in full sight of all opponents, randomly pick 2 for hold em, and if the flop is anything decent for the cards we have, don't look at them until the turn. Life on the edge!
 
Ya, check call turn..

Expect one villain to roll over pocket jacks in HE and another with pocket 4's in PLO
 
The only real viable splits are :as: :ts: or :2s: :2c: in HE, but the difference is marginal because the hand is a very weak opener in the first place.

There is essentially no way to split this where you're setting yourself up to even get a big one-way hand, never mind the kind of two-way hand that's necessary to weather big action in SOHE.

There are a few extremely specific flops that you'll really smash (e.g., :2d: :4s: :5s:), but they're rare and don't even really lock you in. Hit the flush one way and you're losing the other way. Boat up and now your flush is busto. Having your cards competing against each other like this from the jump is no good.

Not much harm in seeing a $0.10 flop, I guess, if you're disciplined enough to get away from boards that don't heavily favor you. If there were any meaningful raising, though, this would be a snap-fold.
 
I think just about both sides of the coin have been discussed at this point, so for better or worse, this is what happened next....

Before I say anything else, with a full ring of 6 or 7 players in the game, this is a hand that I definitely fold to a pot raise that limps/folds around to the button. However, given the game was short handed, and I had a nut flush draw in my hand of some kind, I decided to take a stab at it. It was 15 cents to see some cards, after all :LOL: :laugh:

That said, we're all SOHE novices and this is actually the first time we played it as a group together. We've played PLO at dealer's choice nights before, so the guys know how to play that. What I noticed in the couple of hands preceding this one was that the other players would load up on their PLO hands and put their trash in their hold em hand. This will be important later.

Still, it took me at least a full minute. What you guys so far argued for is exactly what I considered. Would it be more profitable to go for the nut flush on the hold 'em or PLO board, and what gives me a better chance to scoop? In the end, I decided to cap my hands with :as::ts::6h::3d: as the PLO hand, and :2s::2c: as the hold em hand, hoping for low spades and a two to come out on the flop. If put the deuces and 3 and 6 as the PLO hand, I'm figuring the most likely hand I can have would be a straight, which on most drawing boards would be second or third best in the end. Pot is $1 at this point.

Anyway, I ended up getting half of what I asked for. The flop came :jh::4c::2d:. The post flop was nothing exciting. Hero bet pot ($1) to try to take it down early with bottom set and a gutshot on the PLO board. BB flat calls, cutoff folds, and SB flat calls. Pot is now $4. Three to the turn, and the :jd: comes out, giving hero a boat on the NLHE hand.

Hero?
Great flop, awful turn. Good chance somebody hit that jack. If it's in their HE hand, you could be in trouble. Yes, you have a boat, but it's the worst possible boat you can have. You also have to assume you are only playing for half the pot, which is never a good place to be. CHECK!!!!!
 
This flop may feel great because you flopped a set in HE, but (a) it's bottom set, and (b) you've got it in the HE side in SOHE, not vanilla HE, so it's worth a hell of a lot less. People load up their HE side with big pairs in this game and tend not to give big action unless they catch a set.

Also very notable: You have nothing but a bare gutshot on the O side, which is both unlikely to hit and unlikely to be best at showdown even if it does hit. Your lowly set of deuces in HE is your only realistic shot at any part of the pot, and it's not even a good one.

This is why hands like this are garbage in SOHE. This is one of the best flops you could hope for, and it's basically a setup to be second-best one way and have no chance the other way.

The turn doesn't change much aside from making you firmly 0% on the O side and making it possible for some non-paired HE hands to be ahead of your set, or to outdraw it on the river.
 
This flop may feel great because you flopped a set in HE, but (a) it's bottom set, and (b) you've got it in the HE side in SOHE, not vanilla HE, so it's worth a hell of a lot less. People load up their HE side with big pairs in this game and tend not to give big action unless they catch a set.

Also very notable: You have nothing but a bare gutshot on the O side, which is both unlikely to hit and unlikely to be best at showdown even if it does hit. Your lowly set of deuces in HE is your only realistic shot at any part of the pot, and it's not even a good one.

This is why hands like this are garbage in SOHE. This is one of the best flops you could hope for, and it's basically a setup to be second-best one way and have no chance the other way.

The turn doesn't change much aside from making you firmly 0% on the O side and making it possible for some non-paired HE hands to be ahead of your set, or to outdraw it on the river.
Great analysis.
 
This was an interesting one from this weekend. We're playing four handed 0.05/0.10 dealer's choice cash games this past Saturday. Pot limit SOHE gets called. This particular hand, I'm in the small blind and I look at :as::ts::6h::3d::2s::2c:.

Cutoff limps for 0.10, button pots it to 0.25, hero in SB calls, BB calls, and limper in the cutoff calls.

First, how would you split this hand? I'll post the flop once I get some opinions!
I fold and save twenty cents.
 
I fold and save twenty cents.
I actually skimmed the OP and missed that there was a raise. (So hard for me to interpret $0.25 as a raise.) I thought it was a limp, which is still a bit of a waste with this hand, but I get people not wanting to play too nittily.

For a raise, though, easy fold. This hand in SOHE is comparable to, say, Q5o in Hold'em or AJ83 rainbow in Omaha.
 
I'm glad I got so much good input from you all here. As mentioned, this is a definite fold if playing a full ring with 6 or 7 players, even in the small blind, but four handed, I figure it was at least worth it to see the flop. The flop actually turns out to be really dangerous for a hand like I had. I knew this and tried to take it down after the flop, but it didn't work out. It got worse from there. Let's wrap it up...

After the jack of diamonds turn, I check, and it checks through with the BB and button.

The river card was the :4h: for a board of :jh::4c::2d::jd::4h:

Not only do more full house draws come out, but it counterfeits the low boat I have and slim chance of winning that I did have of winning at least half of the hand. Even if someone had a jack (or two) capped on the PLO or HE side, someone was also had a high probability of a 4 somewhere.

I didn't know what to do here besides check, so that's what I did. I feel by betting after the turn that I was begging for a reraise from someone with a jack or a four, and that I would have bet just to fold in that scenario, so I decided to check it through and live to fight another day.

Sure enough, BB bet pot, button called, and I made the pissed off fold. BB showed J4x on the PLO side and queens on the NLHE side and button mucked without showing giving BB the scoop.

Luckily this was a cheeseburger stakes game and I paid only $2.25 to learn a lesson that I should have either

A. Gone for the broadway and nut flush draw on the HE side, and just played for that.

or

B. Fold pre

I think I'll just go option B next time.
 
They’re all wrong. :as::2s: in hold’em / T632 in Omaha. Fold if you don’t flop the NFD or 45x. Gotta play for the “shocker scoop”
 
They’re all wrong. :as::2s: in hold’em / T632 in Omaha. Fold if you don’t flop the NFD or 45x. Gotta play for the “shocker scoop”
Shocker scoop?

You should talk them into playing Lazy SOHE... way more excitement :)
 
They’re all wrong. :as::2s: in hold’em / T632 in Omaha. Fold if you don’t flop the NFD or 45x. Gotta play for the “shocker scoop”
Actually ... I think this is the best split, better than ATs or 22. This one actually offers legit scoop potential (however slim). Nice.
 

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