Interesting rules moment from Friday night (1 Viewer)

[grebe]

First day back to live cards was last Friday! YAY! Things did not go my way....boooo!

I'll save you the bad beat story, because no one cares anyways and tell you about my final hand. I had less than 2BB's left due to the hand before, and pretty much let everyone know it was going in the pot dark....table is 10 handed after last 2 combined. (I had also shoved the last two hands....first with AA, second with 44....lost to KJ).

I am in MP and holding my chips in my hand. 1 caller, I slam my chips in the middle. Everybody is joking about me not looking and all, it's a fun atmosphere. It gets around to chip leader and he is obviously trying to think of what to do....he has a monster obviously and is confused (I played exactly 2 hands with him and could tell he was the worst player on a heater). He's shaking, and flustered. He gets a handful of chips out, sets them in front of him and yells "call!"

He obviously wanted to raise....but verbally yelled "call". Does ANYBODY EVER let him correct this mistake?

It was pretty funny, tbh. The board came out super connected, the early position caller went all in and the fish folded AA and showed it. I was eliminated (52 if it matters), but AA would have won.

 

[Highli99]

That’s funny. Verbal is binding so id just laugh it off and move on.

years ago I had a guy see a flop and immediately stand up and shout all in. This was funny because he was like 4th to act. Checks around to him obviously, she shoves the chips in, then hysterically somebody actually calls him. He had flopped straight and busted the guy who called. Fun times. Btw it was not an angle shoot at all. This guy was very new to game and also functionally autistic (brother of another player). We were playing like $10 stakes also so very friendly.

 

[upNdown]

He's shaking, and flustered. He gets a handful of chips out, sets them in front of him and yells "call!"

I guess it would depend on how many chips he put out, how far in front of him he put them out, and, most importantly, whether he released the chips first, or said call first. And obviously house rules matter.
But no, if the factors add up to a call, I don't let him changes the mistake.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Verbal bets are binding. You learn by your mistakes.

 

[raynmanas]

yeah this is a no-brainer. conversely, if he put out just a call and yelled "raise!", that would also be binding and he would be required to put in a min-raise.

of course you got it right, and presumably he learned his lesson. now he has to learn to control that shaking...

 

[JustinInMN]

Verbal bets are binding. You learn by your mistakes.

I guess it would depend on how many chips he put out, how far in front of him he put them out, and, most importantly, whether he released the chips first, or said call first. And obviously house rules matter.

@upNdown is right. "Verbal is binding" is only true if the verbal declaration comes BEFORE chips released in the pot.

The order of chips or verbal first makes all the difference. Whichever one is first is actually binding. Based on @grebe 's original comment it looks like the verbal was after the release.

He's shaking, and flustered. He gets a handful of chips out, sets them in front of him and yells "call!"

He obviously wanted to raise....but verbally yelled "call". Does ANYBODY EVER let him correct this mistake?

I would rule the chips speak and the verbal declaration is not timely and discarded. If he put out enough for a raise or close enough to a raise to compel correction (50% rule) then I would say the verbal declaration is not timely and therefore irrelevant, he completed his action with chips.

To rule otherwise is to open up an angle where a player could just shove chips in without saying anything, and then quickly saying "call" to reduce his exposure if he sees another player is about to act.

So to the question, yes if the declaration of call is after the release of enough chips for the raise, disregard the verbal and correct according to the chips.

 

[grebe]

Sorry, same time....he held the chips up in the air, put them down at the same time as "call". He OBVIOUSLY meant to say raise, he was just flustered. Nobody offered to correct it, and there was no way I was helping the guy. He was actually annoying as hell, acting like he was table captain because he had all the chips (I heard someone say something about a 2 outer or something....sounds about right). I just kept my mouth shut and laughed.

 

[grebe]

Also, to clarify....there was no big controversy. It was a clear call to everyone and the guy did not ask for a ruling. He was so flustered it was comical. But, it's the most interesting thing that happened.

I say that, I have no idea what the conversation was after the hand, as I left. Probably should have stuck around for 5 minutes to see how they handled it.

 

[JustinInMN]

Also, to clarify....there was no big controversy. It was a clear call to everyone and the guy did not ask for a ruling. He was so flustered it was comical. But, it's the most interesting thing that happened.

I say that, I have no idea what the conversation was after the hand, as I left. Probably should have stuck around for 5 minutes to see how they handled it.

Ah I gotcha, so if the chips weren't released first, then it's the right thing. I just saw the sequence and assumed it was chips before verbal.

I doubt they needed to do anything further than correct the chips to match the declaration.

 

[Sal Bandini]

it's a fun atmosphere.

It's a raise.

 

[grebe]

It's a raise.

1/2 credit. You must defend your answer.

 

[legonick]

Sorry, same time....he held the chips up in the air, put them down at the same time as "call".

Action >>> words. If it was truly the same time, then it should have been ruled a raise, assuming his chip action was a forward motion that signified a raise, which sounds like it was.

Fun home game, so no biggie, but I'd have ruled a raise and been consistent with that so there is no question on future action. A more devious (read, jackass) player could play angle shoot games with this stuff.

 

[grebe]

Action >>> words. If it was truly the same time, then it should have been ruled a raise, assuming his chip action was a forward motion that signified a raise, which sounds like it was.

Fun home game, so no biggie, but I'd have ruled a raise and been consistent with that so there is no question on future action. A more devious (read, jackass) player could play angle shoot games with this stuff.

Robert's rules disagrees with this. Quote is from section 3, Betting and Raising:

1. A verbal statement in turn denotes your action, is binding, and takes precedence over a differing physical action.

 

[BGinGA]

Agree. Simultaneously moving ~any~ number of chips while saying 'call' is a just a call.

 

[legonick]

Robert's rules disagrees with this. Quote is from section 3, Betting and Raising:

1. A verbal statement in turn denotes your action, is binding, and takes precedence over a differing physical action.

I agree and rescind. Words >>> actions.

 

[grebe]

I agree and rescind. Words >>> actions.

Wait, isnt this still the internet? You are NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT!!!! You must keep your original opinion until death!

J/K...you must be married. Well played.