I just had a baby ( and ramblings about health care) (1 Viewer)

Marius L

Marius L

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Me and my girlfriend of eight years just had our first baby, and it really got me thinking about the Norwegian health care system. Considering health care has been a hot topic in the US for a long time I figured I wanted to share it with you guys.

After reading about several others here on PCF with news like this in the last couple of years I suddenly started thinking about how this experience differs from country to country, and I just couldn't help but be amazed at how awesome our Norwegian social democractic welfare state is.

Before I start with the pregnancy stuff, here's a little introduction to our health care system:
In Norway we have (basically) free universal health care for all our residents. Doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, live in the North or South, everyone gets the care and help they need. There are some very minor fees for regular doctors appointments (like 20-30$ for a regular check up), but for the people that for some reason needs to have more than just regular check ups/ gets hospitalized/ need more expensive meds/ are in an accident or whatever else health related - the government will pay everything that's above 2390 Norwegian kroner (about 300$). That number is for the whole of 2019, so when you reach that limit, you still get exactly the same care as everybody else, but you don't need to pay anything for the rest of the year.

This goes for:

Prescription drugs,
Hospital bills,
Doctors appointments,
You name it

An example from my life:
When I was in sixth grade my mom got cancer for the first time, and over the years she has battled the illness several times since it keeps coming back. She is still doing good, but she has been taking meds daily for at least the last ten years, and over the years she has had several different periods of chemotherapy, surgery and longer hospitalizations. I can only imagine the price tag of all this, but luckily it was never a topic of discussion. She always got to focus on what was important, namely getting better! Financial stuff was never an issue. I know that in the US most people (?) have some sort of health insurance, but from what I have heard the hospital bills still tend to be crazily high.


Now for pregnancy and child birth there are some special rules here. It's completely free of charge and thus not a part of the yearly medical spending limit I mentioned earlier.

What this includes is different from case to case, depending on whether or not there are complications with the pregnancy or after birth. Regardless it is free. The standard is:
- Monthly checkup from doctor or midwife throughout the pregnancy.
- ultrasound in week 18.
- extra checkups late in the pregnancy
- breastfeeding class
- "preparing to be parents"-class
- 2 nights in the hospital after giving birth
- regular vaginal birth or C-section based on need (we can't choose c-section unless there is a medical need for it)
- different sorts of painkillers, like epidural based on need/wants
+ Whatever is needed if there's complications

All this for the solid price of 0.00 USD.
I read somewhere online that someone got really crazy hospital bills after giving birth in the US, but not sure what a standard price is if you have insurance. Anyone care to share their experience with this?

Spending a few years on this forum it seems its pretty regular that someone on here has either family with medical issues or have medical issues themselves that they have trouble paying for. It must be really hard to have to rely on help from friends or even strangers in an already extremely though situation to make ends meet. It really sadens me to see, as I don't think the US system is very fair. It's perplexing to be honest, with all the kind souls here constantly voluntaring and organizing sales and events to help out people in need, but it still seems many people don't want a health care system that just helps people by default.

Now of course the money for all this comes from somewhere, and yes we pay taxes, and you bet I'll happily keep paying them knowing I'm taken care of if something happens to me or my family.

Thanks for reading. And by the way, if you made it this far, everything is good with the baby and I'm super stoked for this new chapter in my life!
 
Congrats on the little one! My youngest just started college, so I'm feeling old.

Just don't tell @Payback about your healthcare system, or he might be moving to Norway! I need my dealer buddy to stay in the US....
 
Canada has a similar system except it doesn't cover prescription drugs. If you are in the hospital and the doctors give you drugs then that is covered while you are under their care. However if your doctor sends you home with a prescription then you are going to have to pay full price for that at the pharmacy.

Our kids being born cost almost nothing. I don't remember if there was a bill. I am pretty sure it was totally free.

My dad had a heart attack and was in ICU for a while. That was totally free. Even the nurses were making comments about how expensive his care was and some of the meds he was getting lol.
 
Congrats!

I had a corporate job for a decade and now have been self employed for the last decade. Americans' experiences and perceptions of the health care system in the US vary wildly between people in those two segments. Opinions about the general politics and general state of affairs aside, I have always just found it so bizarre that health care is so closely tied to corporate employment in the US. It seems counterproductive to me.

My second daughter was born into NICU for a couple months while I was self employed as the only income generator in my family. While I had us all insured, it was pretty scary times for both my daughter's health as well as the fear of the bills.
 
We've been told for years that the healthcare in other countries is terrible. You wait for months, even years to see a doctor. Stories of people dying before they get in to see their doctor, assuming one even exists, because all the good doctors go to the US to make more money. Then there are the "Death Panels". I'm not making this up. We have been told that actual death panels exist to determine who gets the care they need.

Fear sells.

I know better, as I have seen my inlaws, who lived in the US for years, move back to Canada for the healthcare. Mrs Zombie is the only member of her family born in the US. I've also had a couple of friends who married US citizens move to Canada, citing healthcare as the sole reason for their move. Also had one Aunt move to Canada and change citizenship. Her biggest reason, healthcare (though to be fair, her healthcare was mostly mental healthcare).

We could also look at lifespans where the US trails the industrialized world.

If you are in a job with great health insurance, it's pretty much like the rest of the world. A modest deductible, then everything is covered. Most people get a tier down from that, with a deductible that stings ($1000 or so) and a co-pay, which is a modest fee for every treatment, with the bulk carried by the insurance company.

In the end, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if the insurance companies are profitable, then someone other than the doctors are making a profit. Therefore we must pay more.

And why? Because fear sells.

...and U-S-A!
 
I was in the military when I had my children, and it was basically free ($7/mo?) yep - that horrible universal healthcare everyone in the US is against is good enough for our troops! I had quite the sticker shock after leaving the Navy and having to pay almost $300 a month to cover myself and my family - then still be on the hook for $6,000 in care before they pick up a penny. USA! USA! USA!
 
CraigT78 said:
Navy and having to pay almost $300 a month to cover myself and my family - then still be on the hook for $6,000 in care before they pick up a penny.
Click to expand...

You would really be shocked at the rates self employed workers pay! 6x!
 
Eloe2000 said:
You would really be shocked at the rates self employed workers have to pay! 6x!
Click to expand...
This is why I still work for the man. My wife owns her own business. I have to work the corporate rat race (at a healthcare company, lol) for 8 more years. Once the kids are off on their own - I'm quitting and working part time at Starbucks :whistle: :whistling:
 
Congrats! The time will fly fast. Enjoy every moment because they don't last as long as you might like.

Just so we are all clear your health care isn't free. You and the rest of the tax payers are footing the majority of the cost. Don't get me wrong, this is a good and wise thing. Birth rates are low in the developed world. It makes all sorts of long term economic sense to subsidize the costs and encourage motherhood / childbirth.

Things are different in the USA. The wealthy can afford state-of-the-art maternal care. Folks with insurance do ok too, though all too many times the co-pay costs are still quite steep. The poor, self-employed and such - - - - well let's just say the USA has one of the highest mortality rates for mother and child in the developed world. Or as many might put it, "don't breed 'em if you can't feed 'em". Sad.

The total out of pocket costs can vary wildly, depending on circumstances and the health of the mother and child. A "worst case" sick baby can cost hundreds of thousand of dollars and often leads to bankruptcy. A more normal pregnancy costs something like $5,000 - to $20,000 with some or most of that covered by insurance. Assuming the insurance covers pregnancy at all.

Poor people might find a way to pay zero dollars with a mix of public and private assistance. Said poor person might not get very good prenatal care. And almost certainly she will find post childbirth to be even less welcoming with very sparse standards of care.

As for me . . . I am self employed & my insurance comes with a five figure deductible. I could pay more up front and lower that, but the math favors taking on more risk rather than pay premiums to take on less risk. We are WAYYYY to old to have children, so the costs related to pregnancy and childbirth aren't meaningful. But my first dollar of insurance coverage after premiums and the deductible is $40,000+ Most years I just write checks to cover any medical costs we incur.

DrStrange
 
Everybody hates free healthcare.

Yet as a firefighter, I have provided emergency healthcare to everyone that needed it. Medicine, splints, bandages, CPR, oxygen, all free. We do not have a collections department, nor do we intend to. All paid for by local sales taxes and property taxes. We don't even card to figure out if you are a resident.

Yet people I work with (and provide the services) still think government paid healthcare would never work. It's perception vs reality.
 
Poker Zombie said:
Everybody hates free healthcare.

Yet as a firefighter, I have provided emergency healthcare to everyone that needed it. Medicine, splints, bandages, CPR, oxygen, all free. We do not have a collections department, nor do we intend to. All paid for by local sales taxes and property taxes. We don't even card to figure out if you are a resident.

Yet people I work with (and provide the services) still think government paid healthcare would never work. It's perception vs reality.
Click to expand...
Is this true if the Ambulance shows up? I had no idea this would be free.
 
DrStrange said:
But my first dollar of insurance coverage after premiums and the deductible is $40,000+
Click to expand...
Untitled-1.jpg
 
CraigT78 said:
Is this true if the Ambulance shows up? I had no idea this would be free.
Click to expand...
Our ambulance is associated with the hospital, and at that point you will get charged. However, if you decline transport - like a diabetic that slips into a stupor/unconsciousness because of low blood sugar, and we bring them back with a 50% dextrose I.V. they are fine, and will usually decline transport. Their treatment is free. If you drive into a tree and smash you noggin, you will be transported because refusal would be determined to be a result of the injury. If you have a heart attack, the drugs we administer are free, but anything the ambulance administers will be charged.
 
Poker Zombie said:
We've been told for years that the healthcare in other countries is terrible. You wait for months, even years to see a doctor. Stories of people dying before they get in to see their doctor, assuming one even exists, because all the good doctors go to the US to make more money.
Click to expand...

This narrative always bothers me and I do see it on US TV. I fairly often hear American politicians complaining about the Canadian system and how we are all suffering under a socialized system. I am not saying the Canadian system is perfect but it works really well for almost everyone.
 
I am the treasurer for the taxing authority linked to the local EMS. We too provide care without regard for ability to pay or if the patient lives in our jurisdiction.

We don't charge for calls that don't result in a ride to the hospital. Even in extreme cases, no ride = no charge. This is a big deal, well over half our calls are "no transport". We are the only EMS in the county to operate like this. The standard of care is high, the ambulance really is a mobile ER many regards.

We do bill your insurance if you go to the hospital. We also will ask you to make up the difference between insurance and costs, but only if you can afford it. We don't use collections of any sort unless greatly provoked - maybe a couple of times a year. Mostly we write off the unpaid amounts.

The cost is about $120 per year on your property taxes and the local tax payers seem ok with that.

And yes, the Treasurer had a fair share to do with making things work out this way -=- DrStrange
 
Congrats on the little one. I hope you get sleep when you can. Does Norway have paternity leave?

I am for healthcare for all as well. But how much of your salary do you pay in taxes?
 
ATLarchip said:
I am for healthcare for all as well. But how much of your salary do you pay in taxes?
Click to expand...

For Canadians:
  • 15% on the first $47,630 of taxable income, plus
  • 20.5% on the next $47,629 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 47,630 up to $95,259),plus
  • 26% on the next $52,408 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $95,259 up to $147,667),plus
  • 29% on the next $62,704 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 147,667 up to $210,371), plus
  • 33% of taxable income over $210,371
Plus provincial taxes... for example in Saskatchewan that is:
  • 10.5% on the first $45,225 of taxable income, +
  • 12.5% on the next $83,989, +
  • 14.5% on the amount over $129,214
Most Canadians will end up being somewhere around 20-35% in taxes paid.

Example, say a Saskatchewan resident makes $72,069 a year: (this looks like a random number but bear with me, the math becomes rounder later)

First the personal amount is taken off (In Canada your first $12,069 is tax free)
  • Taxable income = $60,000
  • Federal Portion
    • $47,630 x .15 = $7145 plus,​
    • $12,370 x .20 = $2474 plus,​
  • Provincial Portion ($72,069 minus $16,065 personal amount)
    • $45,225 x .105 = $4748 plus,​
    • $10,749 x .125 = $1,343.​
  • Total paid: $15,710
  • $72,069/$15,710 = 21.79% tax.
That example is gross, so doesn't include the many various credits available.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

Edit: fixed some math - forgot to include personal amounts in earlier version.
 
Last edited:
We had a baby 2 months ago in US with good insurance...and I still don’t have a clue how much it costs. So far we haven’t paid anything.

It’s a little nerve wracking because no idea how much to budget, and surprised we haven’t been hassled to like, errrr, pay for it.
 
ATLarchip said:
Congrats on the little one. I hope you get sleep when you can. Does Norway have paternity leave?

I am for healthcare for all as well. But how much of your salary do you pay in taxes?
Click to expand...

Tax paid is dependent on income. The average Norwegian will pay a bit over 30% of our salary in taxes. Higher income people pay slightly higher towards 40% and lower income people pay less, down to 10% or nothing if your income is really low.

Yes we have paternity leave. Total maternity and paternity leave is 100% paid leave for 10 months. You get money based on your income during the last year. The leave has to be split with minimum 15 weeks for the mother and minimum 15 weeks for the father, and the rest the couple can split as they like. In addition both parents stay home 2 weeks right after giving birth.

Do you get paid maternity/paternity leave in the US?
 
timinater said:
For Canadians:
  • 15% on the first $47,630 of taxable income, plus
  • 20.5% on the next $47,629 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 47,630 up to $95,259),plus
  • 26% on the next $52,408 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $95,259 up to $147,667),plus
  • 29% on the next $62,704 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 147,667 up to $210,371), plus
  • 33% of taxable income over $210,371
Plus provincial taxes... for example in Saskatchewan that is:
  • 10.5% on the first $45,225 of taxable income, +
  • 12.5% on the next $83,989, +
  • 14.5% on the amount over $129,214
Most Canadians will end up being somewhere around 20-35% in taxes paid.

Example, say a Saskatchewan resident makes $72,069 a year: (this looks like a random number but bear with me, the math becomes rounder later)

First the personal amount is taken off (In Canada your first $12,069 is tax free)
  • Taxable income = $60,000
  • Federal Portion
    • $47,630 x .15 = $7145 plus,​
    • $12,370 x .20 = $2474 plus,​
  • Provincial Portion ($72,069 minus $16,065 personal amount)
    • $45,225 x .105 = $4748 plus,​
    • $10,749 x .125 = $1,343.​
  • Total paid: $15,710
  • $72,069/$15,710 = 21.79% tax.
That example is gross, so doesn't include the many various credits available.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

Edit: fixed some math - forgot to include personal amounts in earlier version.
Click to expand...
To compare in the US:
1566859482738.png
 
When my first child was born I got 3 days bonding leave. Anything more than that was either Vacation or Sick time. When my second was born I had changed positions in the same company and got 2 weeks! I was super stoked about that (honestly, I was).
 

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