I cannot find a fold here :( (1 Viewer)

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boltonguy

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Ugh 25 NL Zone. Can you fold river here?

LJ RFI 2.2BB, CO calls, Hero 3! to 4.5x on BN with AA. LJ folds, CO calls.

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Hero flops top set, V X, Hero bets 1/3. V calls.
Probably should have bet larger (1/2 - 3/4 pot) given the connected nature of the board and Hero's hand strength.

1641758227163.png


Turn is a blank - not expecting 68s or 23s here.
V X and Hero sizes up to 3/4 pot. V calls. Concerning.

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V jams river. One liner to a 6 out there. Hero knows he should fold but at top of range, Hero puke calls.

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And V scoops. Ugh. Didnt I just say they have it 99% of the time ...

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Last edited:
I would have felt better about calling a flop jam then his river shove. At least I would have gotten it in good then ...
 
This is why I don't play online. This happens way too often ...... The math just doesn't add up.
 
I think I three-bet to more than 4.5xBB preflop. Flop is wettish with two spades...I probably bet more than 1/3rd pot there also...something like the 3/4 pot bet you made on the turn. I realize that might not get a flop fold, tho.

I think the PF and flop bets were small enough to allow him to chase. What was your thought process on the flop...did you want a call? I think only chance you have of winning is sizing up the flop.
 
I think IP "normal" 3! sizing is 3x. I added 1x for the caller and .5x for my hand strength = 4.5x
I think this is standard online
 
I think the Jam was on the Turn, but who knows if he would have called. I don't like calling on the fourth street to see what happens. Make him make the call against the best hand on the turn if he's betting into you.
 
WedgeRock said:
I think I three-bet to more than 4.5xBB preflop. Flop is wettish with two spades...I probably bet more than 1/3rd pot there also...something like the 3/4 pot bet you made on the turn. I realize that might not get a flop fold, tho.

I think the PF and flop bets were small enough to allow him to chase. What was your thought process on the flop...did you want a call? I think only chance you have of winning is sizing up the flop.
Click to expand...
I dont think V is folding flop here no matter what the size with his exact hand but, generally, I think I am blocking V's flop calling range (as I see 3 Aces and so it is unlikely that he has a 4th, and the other cards are to low to connect with a "normal" 3! calling range OOP) and so bet smaller to keep him in with weaker hands like JJ/TT/99.
 
Josh Kifer said:
I think the Jam was on the Turn, but who knows if he would have called. I don't like calling on the fourth street to see what happens. Make him make the call against the best hand on the turn if he's betting into you.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure V jammed river when he made his straight? Are you suggesting I jam turn here?
 
boltonguy said:
I think IP "normal" 3! sizing is 3x. I added 1x for the caller and .5x for my hand strength = 4.5x
I think this is standard online
Click to expand...
Here's an honest question - what's your goal with that 3-bet?
Personally, I always want one caller with aces, but never two. And I guess if I can't have just one caller, I'd rather just take it down pre? That sounds very nitty and the math is probably wrong, but that's just my general mentality, especially when I'm 200bb deep.
 
upNdown said:
Here's an honest question - what's your goal with that 3-bet?
Personally, I always want one caller with aces, but never two. And I guess if I can't have just one caller, I'd rather just take it down pre? That sounds very nitty and the math is probably wrong, but that's just my general mentality, especially when I'm 200bb deep.
Click to expand...
Not sure I understand - I did get HUP with my sizing. IP I shouldnt need to bet as large as OOP. 3x +1 per caller is standard IP. OOP add another 1 or 1.5x.
 
boltonguy said:
Pretty sure V jammed river when he made his straight? Are you suggesting I jam turn here?
Click to expand...
Yup. If he's betting into you with your top trips on a board that's starting to build wet on the turn, make them making the choice for the chips, not you. I don't like calling and giving them a card on the river. You basically have second nuts (first nuts would be straight that shouldn't have called your preflop raise) and are giving them outs on the call on the turn with trips.

If you have the best hand, don't let them control the action and give them rope. I would have reraised heavy on the turn on his bet to make him have the hard choice rather then you having that choice on the river, which in the end killed ya.
 
boltonguy said:
Not sure I understand - I did get HUP with my sizing. IP I shouldnt need to bet as large as OOP. 3x +1 per caller is standard IP. OOP add another 1 or 1.5x.
Click to expand...
I know you did. Well done. I would have felt like I needed to tick it up a bit higher, to isolate.
But I guess you’ve answered the question - you were hoping to get heads up
 
Josh Kifer said:
Yup. If he's betting into you with your top trips on a board that's starting to build wet on the turn, make them making the choice for the chips, not you. I don't like calling and giving them a card on the river. You basically have second nuts (first nuts would be straight that shouldn't have called your preflop raise) and are giving them outs on the call on the turn with trips.

If you have the best hand, don't let them control the action and give them rope. I would have reraised heavy on the turn on his bet to make him have the hard choice rather then you having that choice on the river, which in the end killed ya.
Click to expand...
Sorry I wasnt clear he checked to me on turn and I bet 3/4 pot. That isnt super clear from my original post. He was X/C flop & turn then donk jammed river.
EDIT: I edited the original post for clarity
 
boltonguy said:
Sorry I wasnt clear he checked to me on turn and I bet 3/4 pot. That isnt super clear from my original post. He was X/C flop & turn then donk jammer river.
Click to expand...
Oh, Sorry, I got the exact opposite from the way it was written.

Then, honestly, donks will be donks. If he wants to play 6/4 off on raises, those are players you normally love to play with. They will lose enough BBs hand to hand to cover these miracle run-outs.
 
The only hands villain is repping for value are 6sXs, so likely 6s7s or 7s8s. Now obviously it turns he can be even wider, which isn't too surprising. I find that even "good" players at these stakes tend to defend FAR too wide to 3 bets when they are OOP.

The real questions for me are is villain good enough to value jam 2 pair here? Would villain play busted spades this way? How many of his bluff hands are 7sXs?
 
sadly I think he's never bluffing here - especially with the donk lead (jam). just made his draw and cant bear the thought of it checking though.
I knew it was a fold but I struggle to fold a set of Aces in almost any scenario :(
 
The funny thing is that if you filter huge databases for donk overbets on the river heads up you’ll find the field is massively under bluffing... But you also see bets with hands that are kind of medium strength like A8/87.

Readless, folding a huge chunk of your range (far more than is optimal) is good but aces specifically starts to overlap with their confusing value-bluffs so it’s a closer decision.
 

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